The American Political Crisis Deepens

19 Apr 2021 16:16 #1 by ScienceChic
Sullivan hits the nail on the head for every single point, ripping both parties for their horrible behavior that is ruining our democratic norms. I don't know if it's fixable, but I do know that change starts with each and every one of us, and it requires patience, listening to understand, non-judgement, curiosity, skepticism, persistence, and calmness. Extremism and tribalism are our enemies, outrage and anger warning signs, and we must push back on those who push extremists views on each side for they are the ones causing the damage to our republic.

The American Political Crisis Deepens
Beneath the surface, the center continues to collapse.
Andrew Sullivan | Apr 16, 2021

I understand the frustration at how our system provides a structural advantage for low-density states — but I see that as a feature of American constitutional balance, rather than an anti-democratic bug. But put aside short-term justifications for any one of these measures, and take all these maneuvers together, and you can see how any temporarily losing ruling party in an eroding democracy tries to shift constitutional norms to entrench power as permanently as possible — and not simply by winning elections in the existing system.

Maybe it’s all those books I absorbed on the collapse of the Roman republic, or the coincidence that I’m finally watching the astonishingly good German Netflix series, Babylon Berlin, set in the late 1920s. But these partisan maneuvers are red lights — a sign that even the attempt for parties to craft compromise, or willingness to share power in the future, is becoming an anachronism. And the gathering illiberalism in the broader culture adds an ominous backdrop to it all.

And the social and cultural forces behind liberal democracy’s unraveling are gaining strength.

We will stagger on, as Rome and Weimar did. In democracies which are slowly being undone, things carry on, until they suddenly don’t.


"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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19 Apr 2021 16:40 #2 by ramage
Andrew Sullivan needs to read American History, his concentration on Roman history and reliance on "netflix documentaries" are superficial to say the least. he shoud spend some time reading of the politics prior to the Lincoln election.

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19 Apr 2021 19:43 #3 by homeagain
''We will stagger on, as Rome and Weimar did. In democracies which are slowly being undone, things carry on, until they suddenly don’t.''

The Fourth Turning....DEFINED.

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20 Apr 2021 09:16 #4 by FredHayek
I don't see it that way at all. Congress has been writing laws for hundreds of years, they got most covered. And in addition to those laws, thousands of new bureaucratic regulations are written every year. I like the idea of a contemplative Senate body, reflecting the interests of the individual states, being able to hold up mob/majority rule. I also like that the courts are also there to protect the rights of the individual out voted by 51%. And especially right now when the Senate is 50/50. And the House is with 10 votes out of 435.

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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20 Apr 2021 19:51 #5 by Rick

ScienceChic wrote: Extremism and tribalism are our enemies, outrage and anger warning signs, and we must push back on those who push extremists views on each side for they are the ones causing the damage to our republic.

Who decides what is considered an "extremist view"? Some would say that requiring ALL immigrants to follow our laws is an extremist view, where I see it as just the opposite of extreme. I try all the time to talk about policies with people who disagree with me and I rarely get very far because my views are seen as extreme. Someone on this board recently posted a quote that mentioned something about debating the policies and not the person, but it always seems to shift back to the person when there is no good defense for the policy.

Maybe we can start to have some quality conversations about policy and less about the overwhelming bad leadership on both sides. I'm game if you are.

It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy

George Orwell

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21 Apr 2021 07:03 #6 by homeagain
Maybe we can start to have some quality conversations about policy and less about the overwhelming bad leadership on both sides. I'm game if you are.


HOW can U separate those two topics? They R intertwined...I believe the "process" is unfolding in a way
that will create a NEW structure,because the "old" is antiquated and no longer works the way it was intended.

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21 Apr 2021 10:56 #7 by FredHayek

homeagain wrote: Maybe we can start to have some quality conversations about policy and less about the overwhelming bad leadership on both sides. I'm game if you are.


HOW can U separate those two topics? They R intertwined...I believe the "process" is unfolding in a way
that will create a NEW structure,because the "old" is antiquated and no longer works the way it was intended.


What do you want to see in a politician? Give me a list of what you consider the best polticos in your lifetime?
What is most important? Ethics? Ability to get things done? Talent at building bipartisanship? Stubborn? Unwilling to give up their ideals?

I like those who feel a duty to serve, but also want to return to their lives after serving a couple terms, like George Washington. I hate career politicians. I also tend to dislike those who walk in lockstep with their parties. I think many of the new Supreme Court justices are free thinkers, they have principles but also think about their positions but also might change their minds depending on a particular case.

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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22 Apr 2021 18:41 - 22 Apr 2021 18:42 #8 by Rick

homeagain wrote: Maybe we can start to have some quality conversations about policy and less about the overwhelming bad leadership on both sides. I'm game if you are.


HOW can U separate those two topics? They R intertwined...I believe the "process" is unfolding in a way
that will create a NEW structure,because the "old" is antiquated and no longer works the way it was intended.

Fred made some good points but I'll just summarize my answer to your question.

The structure and the process have nothing to do with the policies. The policies are the ideas and the ideas are the changes that will effect every American. All I ask is that we all give our opinions of the ideas... the policy proposals. You either agree with an idea or you don't. You don't think a wall is helpful in preventing millions of people from illegally pouring over our border and I think it is helpful. It's really that simple when talking about any idea, the structure and the process are just roads to implementing ideas.

It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy

George Orwell

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