Obama calls for longer school year.....

The Viking wrote: [Why is it that schools have such budget problems?

Our math instruction came from Singapore.

They got their system from Germany.
(which invests huge sums into education)

Singapore is top ranked in the world in the area of math.

Why?

I think it has more to do with attitude than actual science.

The materials we used were very good. I simply think they're successful because success and excellence are widely shared values and goals.

Singapore is also a little less pluralistic, socially.

Satchmo wrote: A whole summer off? Why? The first month of school is bringing the kids back up to speed from the end of the last school year. Most parents can't afford vacations for the entire summer, nor camps and all the other stuff they do over the summer. I can see that teachers need summers off because of all the crap they've gone through with out-of-control kids. They have to recover. And, in most school systems, teachers don't get paid for that time off. They simply have their paychecks allotted for 12 months.

Very good responce and post. But I want to address this one issue. Growing up on a farm I totally understand why some kids need the summer off. That all started as most kids were needed on the farms in the summer for planting and harvesting as farmers could not afford to pay for hired help. My brother and I were driving tractor at 8. Having a couple kids to help during the summer meant if they would survive throught the winter or not.

Now granted, that is not as prevelant anymore, but where I am from, I still know that the kids are needed most of the summer to help in the fields in order for the families to make it. No they don't always get paid anything other than a roof over their head, food on the table and maybe a couple extra gifs at Christmas, but it is what some families have to do to survive. If they had to go to school all summer too, then the farmers would have to hire help which might mean the difference between keeping food on their table or bankruptcy.

And another point on this is that many teachers count on the summer off to get another part time job for those 3 months to supplement their income. If it went to 12 months and they got paid the same, then we may lose a lot of good teachers.

We were allowed to take time off from school to pick cotton and fruits. This was in the autumn. The schools had regard for the ecomonics of our families and our seasonal economic needs. Summer time was taken with hauling hay, cutting wood, and wheat harvest.

major bean wrote: I hesitate to reply to this post, but I feel that I must.
Our daughters were wilder than a March hare. This was intentional on our part. Here was our reasoning:
1. we felt that they must be masters of their own world. So we took away the word "no". We observed that children were told "no" because of arbitrary rules about inconsequential things. "No" would make them losers from the very start because they would be doing forbidden things. We controlled their world, so we made sure that nothing in their environment was dangerous or hurtful to them. So "no" was not necessary.
2. we controlled their environment. This was stated above but must be listed because of its extreme importance. We were not over-protective but gave our girls free rein to explore, conquer, control, exploit the world. They were a holy terror at Safeway, WalMart, and everywhere they went. I apologize to everyone who came into contact with them, but no one was harmed, insulted, abused, or altered by them. We were sure to instill politeness and courtesy into their rearing.
3. our daughters' minds must be unfettered. In order to think and reason, they must not be hindered by retreat behind the curtains in their minds which are drawn by years of disapproval.

There's a difference between exploring your world, and being borderline feral. I have no problem with kids who run about, scream, are curious about everything as long as they can LISTEN when an adult says "don't touch the wood stovem it is hot and you will burn yourself." If a reason is given, and the child can think, they'll go - hey, I shouldn't touch that stove cause i can feel the heat from here!"

Big difference, IMO.

And double posting, because of different focuses - back when Colorado was founded, and farming was a focus - and throughout the country - school was let off in the spring for planting, and in the fall for harvest, so children could be home to help the family. Otherwise, school was in session all summer, and there was plenty of time to run about and play on the longer days. Sometimes, school got canceled in the winter due to depth of snow and inability to get to the school; parents then picked up the slack when they were able, and school went right back into session as soon as roads were cleared.

I see nothing wrong with doing an agricultural school system in agricultural areas, and nothing wrong with summer school (as long as the conditions in the school allow for it).

BUT - the system needs revamping first before all year schooling would even start to become effective.

My children were products of three state school systems (Washington State, Texas, and Colorado) and DoDDS (the Department of Defense Dependent Schools). DoDDS was by far the better school system, with better teachers and administration...of course these are government employees and their pay is way different than those in state schools.

Of the three stateside schools, Texas was the worst...my kids were in 3 different school districts within the San Antonio area, and the school on base was by far the best of the three, but then the board of education was made up of military or military-related (retired military, civilians that worked on base, or spouses of military/civilians) personnel and a lot of the teachers were former military. And the kids were all military dependents, which makes a huge difference in attitude and experience.

The last school the kids were in was in one of the poorest parts of San Antonio and was huge (the high school had over 4,000 students in it). My kids, as caucasians, were the minority...and there was a lot of gang activity. My youngest went to Jr. High in this area and it wasn't unusual for there to be several pregnant girls...furthermore there were several kids in his Jr. High that were 16, 17, & 18...

The school in Washington they attended, again was on base, and was all dependent military children. Good teachers, good administration. Good school.

I have a problem with the administration (both the people and the way it is run) of the school in Fairplay...typical small-community, small-minded school system, including the parents of the children, a lot of the teachers, especially the administration (principal, counselors, etc.) and the students. An example: my youngest mentioned that he had lived in Italy and gone to school there and was told by multiple students and some adults that he was lying. And the principal seems to think they are God and because they fill multiple roles within the school doesn’t have to abide by the written rules of the school, the state, or the country. My mom, who rarely bucks authority even had a problem with this school administration.

Both kids graduated with scholarships, but it was because our family is determined (read stubborn) and didn't take anything lying down...we fought tooth and nail for what they earned…and because both were on IEPs.

I will say that my travels educated my kids beyond what a lot of children get these days. Furthermore, I decided early as a single parent that they had to learn beyond what the schools were going to or did teach them. They had to use their voice and the proper words...they had to make decisions and if those decisions came back and bit them in the behind, then they had to pay the consequences...I wasn't going to bail them out. This doesn't mean that I threw them to the wolves and made them survive completely on their own...they knew I was there to support them, but they also knew that I wasn't blind and stupid and if their mistake was made again or made because they didn't use the brain God gave them, then I would let them know they were stupid or they didn't think before they acted. There is a huge difference between loving your child and making excuses for them.

Are my kids the greatest as far as behavior and socialness? Nope. But, they both have jobs where their employers love them. One is making his way through college and has been living on his own for over a year. And both of them thank me a lot through the year for teaching them how to live and survive. Furthermore, most people I meet tell me what good kids they are…they are polite, and act like adult humans in public and they are kind, which reflects well on me ‘cuz the schools sure didn’t instill this in them.

And I believe all of this is a combination of all of the schools, including pre-school, they went to, the places we lived, me, and the other people I exposed them to.

Making the school day longer is going to allow those parents that aren't parenting well the chance to keep not parenting well and to blame the school system when their child(ren) do not become productive members of society.