I can agree with what you say SC, but I think it is hypocritical of Scruffy to claim you are speaking for him or for Archer, LJ, and some of the others on this forum.
There have been too many claims of posters that are indicative of truly hating this country, to accept your premise as standing for them.
How disappointing to hear that from you Nymysys. I am willing to concede that no matter how much I disagree with your position that your passion is an expression of your patriotism every bit as much as mine is. The only people who I would call unamerican are those who neglect their duty as citizens and don't inform themselves on the issues, who don't direct their representatives and who don't vote. Hating your fellow citizens the way you seem to do is damaging to our national conversation. Listening to the other side can expand your world view. Try it sometime.
Nmysys wrote: I can agree with what you say SC, but I think it is hypocritical of Scruffy to claim you are speaking for him or for Archer, LJ, and some of the others on this forum.
There have been too many claims of posters that are indicative of truly hating this country, to accept your premise as standing for them.
this thread reminds me of what it was like when some forefathers got together and tried to hammer out the articles of confederation, the constitution, declaration of indepedence - lots of different thoughts loudly and strongly voiced. each side has a passion. no different here.
bumper sticker - honk if you will pay my mortgage
"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." attributed to Margaret Thatcher
"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." Thomas Jefferson
You came here disappointed, nothing new. Your opinion! Everyone has one.
Now for mine. Yes, I believe that anyone who claims so vociferously to defend Obama's policies, Reid's policies, and Pelosi's policies, can only hate America.
Everything they have done has been against what this country has stood for. By your arguments and complete defense of all the crap they have pulled has me convinced. Nothing you have stated for months has been anything else but blind defense of it. Transparency, hope and change, pass this and then we can read it, shoving these bills down the throats of the American people knowing damn well that they weren't wanted. I have stated my complaints about Obama many times and always you came up with inane arguments, this proved to me that you are haters of what America has stood for and want to change it to the bastardized ideas that you think make sense.
Nmysys wrote: I can agree with what you say SC, but I think it is hypocritical of Scruffy to claim you are speaking for him or for Archer, LJ, and some of the others on this forum.
There have been too many claims of posters that are indicative of truly hating this country, to accept your premise as standing for them.
While I wouldn't presume to say that absolutely everything I say most of those you named would agree with me on, I can state with enough confidence, after having seen them mention multiple times themselves the same type of ideas, that I'm mostly on track, but they can certainly speak for themselves as well.
There have been too many claims of posters that are indicative of truly hating this country, to accept your premise as standing for them. Yes, I believe that anyone who claims so vociferously to defend Obama's policies, Reid's policies, and Pelosi's policies, can only hate America.
Everything they have done has been against what this country has stood for. By your arguments and complete defense of all the crap they have pulled has me convinced. Nothing you have stated for months has been anything else but blind defense of it. Transparency, hope and change, pass this and then we can read it, shoving these bills down the throats of the American people knowing damn well that they weren't wanted. I have stated my complaints about Obama many times and always you came up with inane arguments, this proved to me that you are haters of what America has stood for and want to change it to the bastardized ideas that you think make sense.
I am curious to know why you think that they vigorously defend Obama and/or his policies, as I haven't seen that from the other posters on every subject, nor do I believe that to support our Commander-in-Chief is indicative of hating America. Also, I do not believe that "every" argument is inane that I've seen; just because you don't agree with the ideas doesn't mean that they aren't well-reasoned or supported. I didn't agree with much of what Bush did, but he was our president and, good or bad, he was our leader and I tried to make the best of it. And I certainly didn't lay all of the blame at his feet, just as I think it's unfair of you to lay all of the blame at Obama's - Congress and our court system have had big hands in steering us wrong for decades as well - our problems started well before Obama ever took office. The president is not omnipotent in this country, much as its easy to have made him the scapegoat over the years. Don't you wonder why it's evolved over recent years that partisanship has gotten so acrimonious, that to support a president who is not of your party is tantamount to treason and hatred? And what that means for the future? I do, and it scares me. We must get off of this path if we are to face the challenges ahead of us.
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
I think Nymysys is confusing America with the Republican party. It's a common mistake among partisans. Look at most liberals, they don't hesitate to express their disappointment with Obama's unwillingness to push a liberal agenda, seeking instead to compromise with those who have no intention of compromising. Conservatives on the other hand never have anything negative to say about their politicians. One would think all Republicans are paragons of virtue- always achieving what the electorate sent them to Washington to do. Any failures must be the result of liberals, no matter how powerless they may be.
Do I think Conservatives hate America? No. Do I question their intelligence? That's another question entirely.
Science Chic wrote: I see it as being based on an assumption that we MUST fight vociferously with one another, even if we have the same end goals in mind, because to do otherwise would mean that we aren't sticking up for our "side" strongly enough, that we're weak and spineless somehow. !
OK, I see what you mean. I think we are just driving at it from different angles. My take was that if it were not for partisan(hate based) disagreement the left and right did agree on things, which would contradict what he said in his opening.
On reflection, I think he was trying to say that even if the whole herd (left and right) agreed on something there should still be opposition for the purpose of debate.
Perhaps that para was added for the word count.
Look at most liberals, they don't hesitate to express their disappointment with Obama's unwillingness to push a liberal agenda, seeking instead to compromise with those who have no intention of compromising.
What is the name of this parallel Universe you reside in?