Movement toward democracy

Throughout much of the Islamic lands, people are voicing their desire for greater democracy, for a say in the affairs of their government. Whether much of the unrest has its roots in activists, is clearly not important when one sees the people of nations rise against their government. Does this not have profound implications in terms of what we can expect with the continued spread of Islam? Does not the young blood shed in the streets of revolt throughout the Muslim world forecast a less vile clash between the Muslim and Christian world? For months we decried and worried over the spread of Islam and demanded that those with more moderate practices step forward to denounce their extremist brethren's positions. Are we not seeing such action taking place in Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, Bahrain, Libya, Oman, Saudi Arabia, and most recently Syria? Not everywhere in these countries has the movement toward more democratic forms of government met with success, but what we see is a desire for more moderate forms of government. What we see is people who share more in common with us now than ever before. Let us not belittle the sacrifices they now make while we remain relatively untouched. Indirectly we pay higher fuel prices, but our struggle and burden is woefully small compared to the price paid by many in the ME. It seems they deserve our support.

What is interesting is most Western governments do not quite know how to act. There is a great deal of hesitation these days, perhaps rooted in our misguided actions in Iraq or Afghanistan. Unfortunately, it's the extreme actions that captivate and generate headlines.

That is quite a hopeful view of the turmoil in the ME. But it is based upon vapor. It is unknown just who the actors are in the revolts. A forecast of "a less vile clash between the Muslim and Christian world"? We shall see soon if this may be much too optimistic.

It is an opinion based upon observations of rebellion. No matter the "actors" it is clear that there are many people who either support the "actors" or have a genuine interest in more freedom. Additionally, I've heard from the people themselves during ten my years in Saudi. While the demonstrations there have been comparatively mild, the unrest still exists and does so without activists or "actors". Conclusion, my view is not just vapor, but born on substance. Many on this forum (me included) have found comfort in attacking Muslims for their religious beliefs, mainly because extremists have shown it lends support to their views. We could argue the same for Christianity during the Crusades. None of that is as important as recognizing an opportunity when it presents itself. When it comes to the prolonged conflict between Muslims and Christians, it is vital that opportunities go recognized. This does not imply going about our task blindly.

(My use of the word "actor" is used more in a literary sense, not theatrical. More in the vein of "perpetrator" or those who have performed the act of rebellion.)

Do you think that those who have caused the unrest are powerful enough to withstand the tidalwave that will overcome the governmental institutions once the leader is deposed? Or are they merely the mules to accomplish the task and will be pushed out of the way whenever power is to be grabbed? Radical Islam is the most likely replacement for the present government of Libya and all of the other countries in turmoil in the ME.

And, currently the U.S. IS going about this task in the ME blindly. There is no policy or predetermined outcome. We are casting the fate of the ME to the wind.

major bean wrote: (My use of the word "actor" is used more in a literary sense, not theatrical. More in the vein of "perpetrator" or those who have performed the act of rebellion.)

Do you think that those who have caused the unrest are powerful enough to withstand the tidalwave that will overcome the governmental institutions once the leader is deposed? Or are they merely the mules to accomplish the task and will be pushed out of the way whenever power is to be grabbed? Radical Islam is the most likely replacement for the present government of Libya and all of the other countries in turmoil in the ME.

And, currently the U.S. IS going about this task in the ME blindly. There is no policy or predetermined outcome. We are casting the fate of the ME to the wind.

Who will step into the breech of power remains to be seen. Somehow, I doubt it will be extremists. That said, I know little abut Libya beyond its geology, and even that is pretty little. The actors in the streets are not interested in rule by extremists, but it will be necessary for an appropriate leader to emerge. We've not heard much from Egypt of late and how the aftermath is going there. I'll need to contact my friend to gain additional insight. Nor have we heard much fro Tunisia lately. These countries are critical for setting examples.

And that leads me our government's behavior. I agree with you that there is no sense of direction or strong foreign doctrine with this administration. It's just another political tiptoe through the tulips approach whose expressed purpose is to gain political favor. One thing we are not gaining is political favor from the ME. The fact the Arab league stepped up and called for rebel support speaks volumes and we should be answering that call IMHO.

I agree with all of your observations except for the potency of the rebels in Libya. Their lack of military organization and armaments indicates that they have no strength of power. They will be easily manipulated and excluded whenever a new government forms. And, as you say, the new government most probably will not be in our interest. What the rebels desire and what they realize will be two entirely different things.

I don't see these rebellions ending up causing any Democracies. Democracy in any form is totally alien to these people. They have been fighting amongst themselves since the beginning of time. I see this all as being part and parcel of the Jihad. The terrorists will end up running each of these countries IMO.

The first official act of the Egyptian Government after Mubarak left, was to allow Iran to move it's Warships through the Suez Canal to bring missiles to be used against Israel.

Agreed Nm , much more evolution needs to take place in the ME before they actually "get it". Until then, they are still tribes with cell phones.