Mars men and Venus Women

In my experiences, a lot of the problems in a relationship stem from lack of or improper communication. For example: the woman is frustrated and irritated and the man decides, without asking her, to fix the problem (he mind-reads what she wants). When in truth all she really wants is a hug and an ear. But, she also doesn't verbally communicate what her wants and needs are, so the man is left with the "damned if I do, damned if I don't" thoughts. And the circle is vicious.

I learned proper, healthy communication during counseling. Most people do not realize that this is learned, by watching those around us and practicing. I was taught that there are keys to proper communication that aren't utilized unless specifically taught. My parents did not communicat healthily or properly and I learned this from them. I have tried to pass the forms of proper communication to my children and for the most part it has worked. I have also tried to impart these teachings to friends and family.

When it comes to the controlling aspect of my personality...yes, I want to tell you what to do, how to do it, when to do it, and what to do when you are finished...a lot of times I just have to sit down in a quiet place, take a deep breath, thank God for my blessings and help, and have faith that it will get done...maybe not how I would do it, but in the end does that really matter?

I learned at an early age that asking for help could be asking for rejection, so I have a tendency to not ask for help, even if I need it and then I end up paying the price because I didn't communicate my wants and needs.

Emotions were mentioned in a previous post...something about being real with our feelings. I've found, again this was taught to me, that most people do not even know the names of the emotions let alone what they are feeling at any given moment. Furthermore, I was also taught that emotions (happy, sad, fear, lonely, shame, and angry) are neither negative or positive...they just are. And it isn't the emotion that is "bad" it is what we do with the emotion that could be bad. The other thing I was taught about emotions, and this took a long time for me to get...was that no one "makes" anyone else feel anything. By saying, "He makes me so mad..." a person is giving their power away to the other person.

Those are excellent comments you have made ComputerBreath. I've read many self help books, spent more than a decade embracing various counseling sessions and through all of that became better at communication and getting in touch with one's own feelings, a challenge with which most men struggle. Particularly important in all this is a continuous exploration of self. As you have pointed out, most of us bring behavior that served us well in our families while growing up, but those particular ways of dealing with problems are no longer applicable or apropos for us as adults.

Men in general disconnect with women when they want to talk. We have the I need to fix this matter whatever it may be when in fact a woman simply want you to listen to her and let her talk her way through the issue that is bothering her, which may not be the first thing that she says and we seize upon. This too is learned, not natural. It takes a long time to break oneself of such habits. But if you listen and allow yourself to become engaged with empathy in the conversation a man can more readily identify with what is upsetting the woman in his life.

It is a major step to begin to recognize and acknowledge certain behaviors we have. It is even bigger to overcome them because there is more than one way to "skin a cat". Your way or my way is not necessarily better, only different . Furthermore, we do things in ways that are comfortable or consistent with our personalities. Forcing another into change into our way of doing things is not a loving relationship, but a manipulative one.

I've already touched upon the emotion issues and agree with you. Men more so than women tend to be disconnected from their emotions. We know something is not right, it's bothering us but we don't know what it is. Training or research is huge in this as is a concerted effort to explore through questions of one self to get answers to the why one feels the way they do. It is an exercise I go through often. I want to know why I reacted or felt the way I did and interestingly, the honest answers are at times surprising.

While differences exist between the sexes, exploring and coming to grips with how to deal with our differences leads to both people becoming whole. It takes two to make it happen. I speak from experience that if only one person accepts responsibility you go nowhere fast. My lovely Sunshine and i work on this all the time together. We practice being honest with each other (something that does not come easily when you do not want to risk hurting your partner) and moving toward an understanding of why something happened, saying we are sorry, acknowledging our mistake and what we learned and granting forgiveness.

Saying "sorry" for the mistakes you made and granting forgiveness, not only of others but of yourself is very difficult. I was taught that this is owning your own reality...but it has to be done when it is in your own best interest.

Granting forgiveness, especially of serious hurts, is something a lot of people don't do. And, from experience, it is amazing when that forgiveness is granted...like a huge lead weight lifted off of the head and shoulders. I've seen people that do not grant any forgiveness and they are bitter, bitter people...and it takes a toll on the physical looks, too.

It is easy for me to type all of this, but putting it into practice is a different matter. Since I learned the tools for healthy thinking and being, I've only been in one major relationship...and I knew that one would end sooner or later because he was leaving the area and I don't get involved in long-distance relationships. So, it was easy for me to practice being healthy when I knew it wasn't going to last forever.

Yes, you are really correct. If both parties in the relationship are not vested in trying to be healthy, the relationship will fall apart.

I have always told my family and friends to be totally honest with me. True honesty hurts, but dishonesty tears the relationship apart and kills the trust factor.

One of the things I was told when I was learning the tools to be healthy, was that once the tools were taught and learned, there was no excuse for not practicing them. Sometimes, I wish I could go back to the way I was before so I can be unhealthy...really with only a few people...but there are times I just want to scream obscenities at them.

Thank you for another thoughtful significant post. Once again we are in agreement. There are a couple of things you mention I wish to support.

"Granting forgiveness, especially of serious hurts, is something a lot of people don't do. And, from experience, it is amazing when that forgiveness is granted...like a huge lead weight lifted off of the head and shoulders. I've seen people that do not grant any forgiveness and they are bitter, bitter people...and it takes a toll on the physical looks, too."

I too have experienced both the uplifting nature of granted and granting forgiveness and the detrimental impact on those who find it impossible to do. There is a visible physiological and physical toll.

I also confide that practicing what one preaches is much more difficult. While granting forgiveness to others is easy for me, it is far more difficult to forgive myself for my serious failure in a relationship. I've tended to cling to it, mostly as a reminder never to do that again. In fact, I have sought and been granted forgiveness by the person who was the recipient of my stupidity. Over the years since, I've come to accept that forgiveness and begun to grant it for myself too.

In my mind, granting forgiveness isn't for the person your are forgiving...it is for you. And, yes, forgiving oneself is extremely difficult.

As far as I'm concerned, men will never fully understand women and vice versa. That being said, the understanding doesn't really need to happen...just acceptance of who each is.

I believe there is a schism that separates men and women when it comes to understanding. While acceptance is necessary, I'd like to go beyond that and continue my quest for improved understanding. One of the reasons I started this thread was in hope of learning more and thereby improving my understanding. It never hurts to gain more insight.

The recent story about the 16 year old gal lost, found and rescued at sea brought out some interesting comments that showed a significant difference between men and women I read that many women would rather not subject or even allow their kids to take huge risks whereas the opposing view comes from the males. Now why should it be that these different reactions took place? I'd find that very interesting.

Sunshine and I have already discussed this and do not see eye to eye. Is it truly a gender difference or is there a link to how one was brought up. Adult responsibility was given to us early (my brother and I). At 8 we were helping repair or put on new roofs, build trusses on the house, a bunch of "dangerous" jobs for kids. Neither one of my parents ever considered protecting us or even warning us. Instead it was expected that you took care of yourself and didn't do anything stupid. Has this tempered my casual response to allowing kids to do "dangerous" things? I'm very much like my parents in not stressing over dangerous work, though I will caution my kids not to be careless. This does not say I encourage my kids to do dangerous things but if they want to try, I'm going to give them the opportunity to do so. What have you to say?

I believe it has to do with how one was brought up. I am protective of my children; however, as I was a single military parent all of their growing up years, I had to teach them how to fend for themselves, to think about the situations they were in, and to take responsibility for their own actions. I also had to teach myself not to fly off the handle if they made a mistake (e.g., my youngest when he was in 4th grade was playing with a friend and threw a rock...into the bus shelter glass and shattered it. It was a complete accident, but it was also government property and so Security Forces were called and we had to pay for the damage. I did not fly off the handle and scream at him and punish him...his punishment was using his allowance to pay for the damage. The cop at the scene was amazed at my calm and told my son over and over and over again that he had a GREAT mom); and I had to teach myself to "allow" certain things to happen or else the boys weren't going to learn. They knew the different between right and wrong, and while they didn't always make the right choices, they paid the consequences when they made the wrong choices.

I think each child, even if they are raised the same, has different levels of maturity and ways of handling things. So, blanketly treating each child the same as their sibling, doesn't work. Take each child, each situation individually.

I also allowed my children to make decisions I felt they were able to make. An example: when my youngest was in kindergarten, they were still in school for Father's Day. I was unmarried and had no communication with his biological father. I got a call from his teacher explaining that the class was making Father's Day cards and that my son wanted to make one for his friend's father. The teacher asked me if that was OK. I was absolutely OK with his decision...it was his choice.

I remember as a child, there were a lot of things me and my siblings did that were questionable as far as safety goes...we went out to the boonies a lot with my dad and went wandering...complete with rattle snakes and other creatures, as well as possibly getting lost in the woods...it was a rite of passage. We also rode in the back of an uncovered truck and on flatbed trailers on dirt roads and even asked and were allowed, to ride in the trunk 'cuz we thought it was fun.

If the adult feels a child is mature enough to handle the consequences of their actions and they want to do something perceived as dangerous by society, then let them do it. That being said, times certainly are different then they were when I was growing up...and if something does happen to the child...even as minor as a cut requiring stitches, the parent could get into trouble with social services for neglect or abuse.