Conifer Park & Rec District

deltamrey wrote: The days of old hippies seeking refuge are gone......the wealth here flows UP the mountain - not down. I have been here 10 years (and need not qualify my positions by how long I have sit on the mountain). The locals live off the productive sector and without development and growth more would be on the dole. Booze and rehab are indeed growth industries up here - not much more (wait - dope growing has been a great new activity we do note).

So you are making accusations you cannot either prove or provide much evidence of. Or are you just accusing folks up here of being drunks and more. The wealth does not flow up the mountains. Most folks up came up here to get the hell out of the city. I would question the real motive of the those few that want this Park and rec district. There is so much BS going on with this it is crazy. Alot of shady things going on with this. Alot of either lying or A not talking to B. Some cannot even get thier story straight. This is all coming from those that want this.

Bullcrap - wealth flows down the mountain just as well - I do most of my shopping in Denver - or are you telling me that there's some hidden store up here that offers silk and satin, other millinery supplies? Never has been, in my research - Evergreen never even had such a shop.

10 years - and you're an expert. I see. Ok- excuse my vast amusement. Your assesment of "booze and rehab" - same levels as always, going well back in time. Same with the pot growth - another nothing new, and not even growing (pun unintended) area. Pretty well same as always.

Your old hippies comment - Bwahahahaha! - Do you get into town much? I have yet to see a yuppie high income housewife confused for a hippie - something about ugg boots, lots of gold jewelry and diamonds and (and this one has me baffled when I witnessed it the other day) wearing $100+ high heels to take the dog to the bark park. In the mud. Somehow, hippies - old or young - don't tend to dress that way. These women fill the grocery stores and other shops all over Conifer, Evergreen, Aspen and Bergen Parks. They've been here since I was a teenager - another nothing new - and they have never ever considered themselves hippies. They also fill the malls - I see the same women in Lakewood and Littleton, taking their money down hill and filling their cars with goods.

Money flowing up the hill - yep, right on up and PAST us as people take 285 to Fairplay as the back way to Breckenridge. IF they stop anywhere along here, it's for gas - cheaper than Denver still - and that's it. There's your reality.

So, Del, what kind of kickback are you getting for pushing this rec district through?

Just so you know, partial approval is not good enough for the man you mentioned - he'll push in an attempt to get it all approved, and in the end, it will all get turned down, just like all his other attempts for development of his property here at Shaffer's Crossing. Go look it up.

Welcome to living in a small town - it is as it is and is unwilling to change, thanks to us "oldtimers".

In that the Conifer COFC promulgated the population demographic - I assume it it in the ball park, Most folks here live not in the burgs of Conifer (unincorporated) nor Evergreen.......not much of a town either - but with potential. Since we are "jacking data a bit" we were also told on a good summer day (weather wise) 20,000 vehicles transit 285 - and once Staunton opens it is expected 40,000 a day in the summer to be realistic. Obviously 285 will be four lanes to Bailey in the next few years. SO - for the economy going forward things are solid. THE issue now (see Doug Kinzy's article in Colorado Serenity - Feb Issue - he is the editor) is the economics that drive the local economy - it is and always has been construction - and the "camp followers" associated with real estate. The area is dying as we speak (schools closing, layoffs, depopulation, foreclosures.........the list is long........sad, sad, sad). This will only be fixed once the building restarts. THE economy IS driven by folks relocating here and most work in Denver (that means the wealth moves UP the mountain).

deltamrey wrote: In that the Conifer COFC promulgated the population demographic - I assume it it in the ball park, Most folks here live not in the burgs of Conifer (unincorporated) nor Evergreen.......not much of a town either - but with potential. Since we are "jacking data a bit" we were also told on a good summer day (weather wise) 20,000 vehicles transit 285 - and once Staunton opens it is expected 40,000 a day in the summer to be realistic. Obviously 285 will be four lanes to Bailey in the next few years. SO - for the economy going forward things are solid. THE issue now (see Doug Kinzy's article in Colorado Serenity - Feb Issue - he is the editor) is the economics that drive the local economy - it is and always has been construction - and the "camp followers" associated with real estate. The area is dying as we speak (schools closing, layoffs, depopulation, foreclosures.........the list is long........sad, sad, sad). This will only be fixed once the building restarts. THE economy IS driven by folks relocating here and most work in Denver (that means the wealth moves UP the mountain).

You either have your head in the sand or you listen to some that have no clue about up here. Look around not alot of folks relocating up here. Alot that are buying up the foreclosed homes are out of staters that want nothing more than a summer home. The do not live here full time and most do not have kids that are below the age of 18. (As I do alot of well tests for this I happen to know this). Don't know where you get your numbers on cars either. 40000 in a day when the park opens. Don't think so. Number one the park itself could not handle it. Better go take a hard look at things. Layoffs have nothing to do with the community, have not seen any school closures up here. foreclosures are directly related to layoffs that is directly related to the economy as a whole.

The student population in two elementary schools here have dropped bu 20-40% in the past five years........Park County is depopulating (see Flume), suicides are up - also a Flume article........my head is not in the sand - yours seem to be in a rather "dark" place since you brought it up.

The students in high schools here are said to be using dope by a 2-1 margin.......and booze is awash in this community.......easily seen. A rec center is badly needed - and incorporation of Conifer is just a matter of time. The area needs new blood and strong leadership - not the past which has doomed the future (read Doug's article if you dare).

THE ONLY industry (read economic viability) here is , has been, and will be construction........until a critical mass of retail can sustain the populace (we are not near that - and most folks with $$$ spend it in Denver where they work).

deltamrey wrote: Most folks here live not in the burgs of Conifer (unincorporated) nor Evergreen.......not much of a town either - but with potential.

Potential? Potential for what? To become overgrown plywood oceans like Highlands 'Ranch'?

The point of living up here is to get away from the urban crap down there, not to haul a bucket of it up everyday on your commute and dump it all over the mountains in hopes they'll stink as much as Denver does by the time you retire.

On my daily commute up the hill, I figuratively wash my feet of the soil of the flatlands. I don't bring any of it with me to spoil the community I call home - the community I chose simply because it wasn't urban, it wasn't Denver. My kids learn about wildlife by hiking out the back door, not by going to a zoo. They're learning to ride mountain bikes because (thank God) there's no pavement close to the house on which to learn to ride a road bike. They gather with friends at school and scout meetings or arrange to have us parents get them together. I'm friends with their parents, and it's a good time for all when we get together. We visit with the neighbors while leaning on a shovel taking a break from maintaining the road up to the house. My workouts involve a chainsaw and a splitting maul, or a shovel (snow or dirt), or a walking stick.

Life is fine up here if you can loose the 'provide entertainment for me' attitude prevalent in the urban wastelands.

Well - some of what deltamrey posted is correct, homes are getting forclosed school student numbers are dropping, businesses closing and Ron Lewis got a partial approval for a little development.

So what.

What does all this have to do with the rec district? Unless your saying that we need this and that it will help the economy?

Because if that's what your saying - I'd say your dead wrong. Adding more tax districts and jacking up the taxes will not make the area more attractive. In fact, the opposite is true that the lower the tax rates are, the more attractive it becomes for people like yourself coming from New Jersey or California.

Many people come here from those places to escape the local governments and all the taxes and fees associated with them. Ironically- as soon as they get here they want to change it so it's exactly where they came from.

10 years in my opinion is not long enough to get the whole picture of the economics of this area. Your correct that the largest amount of jobs come from the construction industry, but that construction depends on a whole mix of other economic sectors that must be growing in order to support the people who buy houses and move into the area.

This is the third or fourth deep cycle of boom and bust I have experienced here. In the 70's - texans moved into Evergreen and Conifer by the thousands, supported by Colorado's energy growth. By the early 80's - they were moving back to texas. Real Estate signs were everywhere as they all went home. Businesses closed, numbers of students dropped. A few years later as the economy improved under Reagan - many people started buying up here again and the area grew fast.

There's always people that suggest they know the area but unless you've seen um come and go like those of us who have been around - you really dont know. So do yourself a favor, listen when we say that this rec district will not be the reason why the economy turns around up here. It'll turn around when the general economy turns around - just like in the past.

We all know the Conifer area was overbuilt in the last 10 years - many retail spaces now stand empty because a few developers were all about expanding the place without a complete understanding of the demographics. Even the banks that loaned out the cheap money for those developments did not do their research on the area.

The way things are going, it will be several years before the area grows like that again. A record number of houses are on the market in the area, and folks are still losing homes. That's why I think the last thing we need up here is another government bureaucracy - another way to hit us with more taxes. Those just trying to get through this period don't need more taxes. Senior citizens really don't need more taxes. I know I don't need more taxes.

And Ron Lewis - he has been around a while. I do not include him in that group of people who do not know the area. Ron knows the area. My guess is that he will seek approval for development, but I think he would be crazy to build houses now expecting to make a profit. But hey - it's his money!

One question that I don't think that I've ever heard a supporter answer is: Why do you think it's fair to make everyone pay, even those that have no plans to use any of the facilities?

When Lewis does anything he seems to attract angst - I do not know him but he seems to be looking forward and certainly is entitled to reinvest his money in the community. Controlled growth is positive........complete resistance is short sighted, dysfunctional, and stupid. AGAIN - the ONLY economy here is construction and folks buying from and selling to each other (seems we cannot even keep the hot dog going and Bailey is a ghost village). A REC district will assist in demonstrating we are moving forward and not mired is past poor, FAILED practices. AND the kids do need a place in the summers to Let off steam (now it is dope, booze and sex).

MOST of the disposable $$$ earned down the hill is spent there.......I am sure the new Safeway is definitely in trouble and kept afloat by the outside financing - possibly they are looking to the future - some few folks here are not.


I am curious what folks (the minority) feel the future economically here really is ?......Not the past I hope (backhoes , booze, and snow plows - is NOT a viable economic base).

deltamrey wrote: AND the kids do need a place in the summers to Let off steam (now it is dope, booze and sex).

I'm not sure who's kids you're talking about, but it sounds like they could use a good dose of parenting, not a new place to gather. A building isn't going to teach a kid the self respect needed to say "No".

deltamrey wrote: I am curious what folks (the minority) feel the future economically here really is?

First and foremost - you are in the minority. That's obvious from the failure of the past attempts to form a rec district. The economic future is in tourism, services, and niche sales.