I gotta go with CG on this one, Orton is an adequate quarterback.....he makes a great backup because he can fill in and not lose a game. Tebow is more inspiring.....when he is good he is very, very good, when he's bad, he doesn't lose it on the field, but continues to believe in himself and his team. What makes him the better quarterback than Orton are the intangibles, how his team members respond to him, how he inspires the team, offense and defense, to play better than they actually are. Shannon Sharp is a good example of that type of personality that brings a team together and makes them want to play beyond their abilities. Yes, I think Tebow would make some stupid mistakes if he were the starter, but you don't train those out of a quarterback if he is playing second string........
SS109 wrote: One of my coworkers says Orton is unable to win after being behind. Duh! John Elway was great at winning in the last 2 mnutes, but sometimes I wish he could have been more like Joe Montana, be so far ahead in the 4th that he is on the sidelines in a baseball cap watching his understudy.
Hopefully with the new defense, Orton won't always be 7 points behind before his first play.
Don't even get me going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Montana had a team around him are you kidding? Elway did this with mediocrity. When he did have a team and a running game behind him he won the super bowl twice. This is the the logic that annoys me. And I hear it over and over. No offense but this is linear thinking. I hear this from all the guys too. It always about power and winning with you guys and you can't appreciate the fact that winners will get it done even when faced with the impossible. That makes Elway superior over Montana. He had the leadership and competitiveness to make something out of nothing. I have seen your attitude and the fight about Montanna and Elway with commentators for years. And sorry but this is because of guys thinking. I know I sound sexist but I have loved sports in a man's world for so long and you guys are all predictable in how you look at sports.
Rockdoc, my point is that no one will say that Orton sucks they keep defending him because of his stats. Not a good argument.
At the top of anything, be it sports, corporations, teaching, etc. what separates the great ones from the good ones is not stats,but the IT factor. It's elusive, hard to define or describe even, but, is is what motivates others to follow their leadership. Orton has no IT and m observation is that his top game ends when the going gets real tough. There is no creative magic, no genius of any sort. Conversely, it seems that is perhaps the only thing that Tim has going fro him in a BIG way. He has that IT and if you do not believe it, then simply look around and note his followers. Then look at him in games. He motivates those around him. Even if he "sucks" as Vl insists and I disagree with him, he still gets the job done. Look at his first game, his second etc. He did not win all of them, lost more than he won, but he was positive throughout it all, even without LOL talent.
I agree RD. Many hate Tebow for being religious and I certainly think it is crazy that he has written book before he has even done anything. And I am very concerned his book thing is a huge distraction. He could lose alot of hunger if that is all he cares about. And it appears that could be happening.
However, the Broncos office and management are so stupid for acting like Orton is anything other than what he is. And I liked how you described him. What worries me is the fact that the Broncos years ago, whould have never let this bad football and decision stuff go on for so long. ALL I KNOW IS WE HAD A FRANCHISE QB AND LET A HEAD COACH COME IN AND F___ THAT UP. And now we are starting over again. Letting this go on for years is not like the broncos and I sometimes worry that we have an Al Davis like problem on our hands.
Man, I complained forever about Greise and I got the same argument about him from all the guys. They thought I was crazy then too. Then he leaves and they all started agreeing with me.
You know what CG? There are lots of people in the world that need statistics to see the difference between the wheat and chafe. Then there are those who see the embodiment of leadership and potential without any statistical backing. FOr example, it only takes a few minutes for me to recognize a top notch geologic professional. You can tell from how they present themselves. I believe Elway sees Tim's leadership and athletic ability first and more than recognizes his need to develop as a quarterback. He need only look in an old mirror showing a young Elway, talented, but not ready to win NFL games. He evolved as will Tim.
My impression is that Tim will remain who he is. If fame and fortune were to seduce him, it could well have happened while still in college. While he no doubt enjoys his fan following, it is not what motivates him. I think he enjoys the role of proving people wrong. There is a tremendous satisfaction in doing that. I had a professor in graduate school tell me "Franz, I don't think you are capable of original research" along with a few more less than complimentary opinions. Nothing felt better than to prove him wrong. I still relish the thought, though it has nothing to do with my motivation. Personally, I want to be the best, and that is what motivates me and I sense the same in Tim. He simply has that drive to overcome all odds.
Rockdoc Franz wrote: You know what CG? There are lots of people in the world that need statistics to see the difference between the wheat and chafe. Then there are those who see the embodiment of leadership and potential without any statistical backing. FOr example, it only takes a few minutes for me to recognize a top notch geologic professional. You can tell from how they present themselves. I believe Elway sees Tim's leadership and athletic ability first and more than recognizes his need to develop as a quarterback. He need only look in an old mirror showing a young Elway, talented, but not ready to win NFL games. He evolved as will Tim.
My impression is that Tim will remain who he is. If fame and fortune were to seduce him, it could well have happened while still in college. While he no doubt enjoys his fan following, it is not what motivates him. I think he enjoys the role of proving people wrong. There is a tremendous satisfaction in doing that. I had a professor in graduate school tell me "Franz, I don't think you are capable of original research" along with a few more less than complimentary opinions. Nothing felt better than to prove him wrong. I still relish the thought, though it has nothing to do with my motivation. Personally, I want to be the best, and that is what motivates me and I sense the same in Tim. He simply has that drive to overcome all odds.
You know good point and only time will tell what moves him. if he is in football to spread 'the word' he is going to fail miserably. If he is in for fame and fortune (that is pretty much left up to the WR nut jobs) he will fail. QB are different and have to have many skills and wanting to win has to be top.
Rockdoc Franz wrote: You know what CG? There are lots of people in the world that need statistics to see the difference between the wheat and chafe. Then there are those who see the embodiment of leadership and potential without any statistical backing. FOr example, it only takes a few minutes for me to recognize a top notch geologic professional. You can tell from how they present themselves. I believe Elway sees Tim's leadership and athletic ability first and more than recognizes his need to develop as a quarterback. He need only look in an old mirror showing a young Elway, talented, but not ready to win NFL games. He evolved as will Tim.
My impression is that Tim will remain who he is. If fame and fortune were to seduce him, it could well have happened while still in college. While he no doubt enjoys his fan following, it is not what motivates him. I think he enjoys the role of proving people wrong. There is a tremendous satisfaction in doing that. I had a professor in graduate school tell me "Franz, I don't think you are capable of original research" along with a few more less than complimentary opinions. Nothing felt better than to prove him wrong. I still relish the thought, though it has nothing to do with my motivation. Personally, I want to be the best, and that is what motivates me and I sense the same in Tim. He simply has that drive to overcome all odds.
You know good point and only time will tell what moves him. if he is in football to spread 'the word' he is going to fail miserably. If he is in for fame and fortune (that is pretty much left up to the WR nut jobs) he will fail. QB are different and have to have many skills and wanting to win has to be top.
very much agreed. I do look forward to see what happens. One of the enjoyments I have is putting myself out there to see if I fail or win.
But, I am going to say...... Tebow is better than ORton. Maybe not short term but long term I do believe he has something more than Orton and you put that perfectly RD.
CinnamonGirl wrote: But, I am going to say...... Tebow is better than ORton. Maybe not short term but long term I do believe he has something more than Orton and you put that perfectly RD.
An aside. I was just watching Roger in the local hard court tournament in the Canada. He won in straight sets in the round of 32. He now faces his most recent nemesis Jo-Wilfried Tsonga in the round of 16. We will see how this tune-up for the US open goes.
