Faster than light

25 Sep 2011 09:39 #11 by Rockdoc
Replied by Rockdoc on topic Faster than light

neptunechimney wrote:

Rockdoc Franz wrote: Seeing space makes me think of space travel. Where will it all be in 100 years? Even at if neutrinos can speed along faster than light, it still will not get humans to habitable solar systems out there. We need to work on the time dimension to accomplish that.


Who knows what it could evolve into over time. I doubt that Otto ever envisioned what we have today.


"In 1660, a German experimenter named Otto Von Guericke built the first electric generating machine. He showed that electricity could be transmitted by using a wet string to conduct electricity several feet. "

Or Thales.

"Around 600 BCE, in Greece, a mathematician named Thales discovered that amber rubbed with animal fur attracted light objects."


http://library.thinkquest.org/6064/history.html


:) those facts I did not know. Amazing. It's fascinating to think how things come about. Visionaries (the crazies of their time) delved into things they did not understand, but somehow perceived them. Other "great thinkers" concluded they were nuts, but eventually science progressed far enough to make sense of those early theories or discoveries. That is what I always keep in mind when some off the wall idea pops up and everyone laughs at it. It's ignorant laughter at best. Tied to the universe is astrology. Many believe in it for various reasons. Those who scorn it take about it in terms of crazy beliefs. Frankly, why should it be that astrophysical motions should not influence our lives when they so definitively influence living and nonliving matter on earth? Years from now it will gain the status of science and some serious questions will pave the way for understanding. I marvel at how far we have come and marvel even more at how far we have yet to go to become intelligent. :biggrin:

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25 Sep 2011 09:56 #12 by Blazer Bob
Replied by Blazer Bob on topic Faster than light

Rockdoc Franz wrote: [:) those facts I did not know. Amazing.



Neither did I. When I did the search I was thinking about a citation to the folks who were honored with electronics nomenclature. Volt, coulomb, ampere, etc.

I like this, "The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/J._B._S._Haldane

When I first studied electronics in the mid/late 60's we were taught that electrons traveled from positive to negative.

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25 Sep 2011 10:37 #13 by ScienceChic
Replied by ScienceChic on topic Faster than light
http://www.livescience.com/16214-implic ... rinos.html
Physics Undone

Scientists officially announced Friday (Sept. 23) that subatomic particles called neutrinos may be passing the ultimate speed limit, zooming at a velocity faster than light. But according to Einstein's special theory of relativity, nothing can cross this barrier. So either the measurements are incorrect, or physicists must revise many trusted theories. Here are 10 that would be affected.

1. Special Relativity
2. Time Travel

Special relativity states that nothing can go faster than the speed of light. If something were to exceed this limit, it would move backward in time, according to the theory.

The new finding raises all sorts of thorny questions. If the neutrinos really are traveling faster than light, then they should be time travelers. The particles could theoretically arrive somewhere before they departed. Physicists suggest such an ability, if it really existed, could be used to send neutrinos back in time to deliver messages.

3. Cause and Effect
4. E=mc^2

Einstein's famous equation E=mc^2 states that energy (E) and mass (m) are equivalent, and can be converted from one to the other by the ratio "c-squared," where c represents the constant speed of light.

The status of the speed of light as the ultimate cosmic speed limit is the reason for its presence in the seminal formula. But if c is not in fact the fastest possible speed in the universe, and things can go faster, this may have to be adjusted in special situations. Perhaps the special speed of neutrinos deserves to win the title of ultimate speed limit instead.

5. The Standard Model
6. String Theory

String theory is incredibly difficult to test, and there is no proof that it's correct. But if the neutrino measurements are correct, some physicists say string theory may offer the best bet of explaining them.

Perhaps, some physicists have suggested, the neutrinos are not traveling along the straight line we thought they were, but instead were hopping into one of the extra dimensions predicted by string theory, and taking a shortcut to their destination. If they traveled a shorter distance in the measured time, then their actual speed may not have been faster than light.

7. Neutrinos
8. Tachyons
9. Supernova 1987A
10. Evolution of the Early Universe

(Above, an artist's conception of the history of the cosmos.)


If time travel were possible, where would you go?
On my list:
1. the building of Stonehenge, the Sphinx, and the Egyptian pyramids
2. the life and death of Jesus Christ
3. if I had a space vehicle that could withstand the multiple trips, a series of excursions to find and watch the asteroid that hit at Chicxulub and see if it truly hastened/caused the demise of the dinosaurs
4. catalog the events of the Permian-Triassic extinction event - the mother of all mass extinctions
5. Discovering if Atlantis really existed and making a series of trips to watch what happened to it
6. the assassination of John F. Kennedy
7. to watch Greek theatre, especially ones by Euripides
8. to listen to Aristotle, Plato, Aesop, Socrates, Antisthenes, Diogenes, Pythagoras, Buddha, Confucius, and Laozi
9. to watch the exodus of Israelites, if Moses truly parted the Red Sea, bringing the Ten Commandments down from Mt Sinai, and what happened to the Ark of the Covenant
10. I'd like to get a series of snapshots of the earth coming into existence and pinpointing the origin and growth of life as we know it, but I'm afraid that, besides being beyond our technological capability to build ships that could withstand the conditions of the planet at that time and protect us as well, we'd probably introduce contamination and then have to wonder if we ourselves created our own life. What a conundrum! :)

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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25 Sep 2011 19:39 #14 by Blazer Bob
Replied by Blazer Bob on topic Faster than light

Science Chic wrote: The new finding raises all sorts of thorny questions. If the neutrinos really are traveling faster than light, then they should be time travelers. The particles could theoretically arrive somewhere before they departed. Physicists suggest such an ability, if it really existed, could be used to send neutrinos back in time to deliver messages.

[/quote]


a neutrino goes into a bar, and the bartender asks if he is new in town. the neutrino says, you must be kidding i was in here last night.

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25 Sep 2011 19:51 #15 by ScienceChic
Replied by ScienceChic on topic Faster than light
I think the neutrino joke in this video will have to be amended: http://fora.tv/2009/11/08/Science_Laugh ... ence_Jokes

So neptune, what would you go back in time to see?

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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25 Sep 2011 22:13 #16 by Blazer Bob
Replied by Blazer Bob on topic Faster than light

Science Chic wrote: I think the neutrino joke in this video will have to be amended: http://fora.tv/2009/11/08/Science_Laugh ... ence_Jokes

So neptune, what would you go back in time to see?


I am much more interested in seeing the galaxie than time travel. That said your 1,2 and 5. Other than that I would like to go back and have an adult conversation with my dad. He died when I was 19.

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26 Sep 2011 03:22 #17 by Rockdoc
Replied by Rockdoc on topic Faster than light
Given time travel, I'd be eager to go to all the places for which I've interpreted environments from the rock record for an evaluation of their validity. Mostly to see how bad they really are, LOL I'd start in the Ordovician, a time when invertebrate life exploded in diversity. The Permian would be another time period of intense interest, as would the Jurassic and Cretaceous. Finally, I'd like to go back and see the early part of my parents life. Actually, I'd have a million other places I'd love to return to for a variety of reasons. Humm.. maybe to change the future a bit, like meeting Holly much earlier when both of us were single and significantly younger. But, why limit it to going back in time, why not move forward in time? I'd like to see where man is in terms of space travel 500 to 1000 years from today. Any of it would be fascinating for sure.

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28 Sep 2011 23:17 #18 by pineinthegrass
Replied by pineinthegrass on topic Faster than light
Just as an aside, I had a couple of physics courses with one of the co-discoverers of the neutrino, Frederick Reines. He was a great professor, but he had the most difficult finals of any class I had. I took his 2nd year physics class, and later his quantum mechanics class. He eventually got the Nobel Prize years later.

While I don't recall him mentioning much about his work detecting the neutrino at the time, we knew about it. But back then, I didn't appreciate the significance of the neutrino. It seemed to me just another particle, and caused embarrassment for me when I later asked him to give me a reference for grad school. I'd love to read that recommendation... not!

Well, maybe it wasn't so bad, don't know. I still got accepted, but later decided not to go to grad school and became an engineer instead. Probably for the better for physics. lol

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28 Sep 2011 23:25 #19 by Nobody that matters
I'd go back in time and kick the young me in the ass. I deserved it, and never got it.

"Whatever you are, be a good one." ~ Abraham Lincoln

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29 Sep 2011 00:48 #20 by Rockdoc
Replied by Rockdoc on topic Faster than light

Nobody that matters wrote: I'd go back in time and kick the young me in the ass. I deserved it, and never got it.


Now there is a worthwhile idea, I could benefit from too. :biggrin:

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