Stupid In America

The level of spending is not the problem.

We spend about $2500/yr for 3 kids (used to be 4).

According to the Stanford, Iowa, and PSAT scores that I'm looking at, we run circles around the local school district with efficiency, as well as results.

Vice Lord wrote:

navycpo7 wrote:

CriticalBill wrote: I think more people need to watch that program...I did and saw nothing that was not factual. Maybe someone who had an open mind enough to watch it could point out the falsehoods for me.

It amazes me that we can't touch the public school monopoly, especially when it comes to making it more competetive and being able to find the best teachers and flush the worst. When it becomes more important to keep a bad to mediocre teacher employed than it is to get that teacher's students off to the best start possible, we really have no chance of catching up to the rest of the world.

I'd like to start a thread on this...... where we disect the video and see who wants to show why the program is wrong and our public school sytem is working well enough to justify the heavy taxes we pay. I wouldn't expect a rational conversation but I can still dream.

It does not work, and like most unions, they refuse to get rid of those the do not perform or are low performers. That would mean loss of income for the union higher ups.

Ha ha ha ha..Thats not how it works..Youre nothing but a clueless meathead..Go plan a bake sale for the troops Navy

your the meathead, I left the union because of just that.

whatever..youre a waste of time

clueless

According to the head of or former head of teacher unions, they are the most self serving representation in the nation. Union first, so they survive, teachers second and kids last. It is one of the best examples why I despise unions. They may once have had a viable function, but now their leaders are nothing more than leaches, sucking their membership of life. Union shop makes me cringe. Again, it isn't the individual members themselves, but rather union leaders. They of course are strong supporters of union labor. How else would they survive otherwise? Today most unions create more problems than anything else. I imagine most good teachers would not join a union were they not forced to do so. I also believe many are frustrated because on their own, they can be competitive through excellence in their field and thereby separate themselves from the rest of the herd who damages our education system and they (the herd beasts) survive only because of union.

I got some fist hand experience with future teachers who came through my basic geology courses at the U. Michigan. Then I was shocked, no stunned by their inability to write a simple sentence. How they even got admitted into college is beyond me. I sure as hell would not want my kids taught by anyone like that. It is a complete waste of student time.

I think another issue with today's education system is the standardization of lesson plans. For many it is like a straight jacket, hindering more than helping. What ever happened with just letting teachers put their best foot forward and teach kids according to how they respond? Every class is different and every class therefore requires a unique approach. Good teachers recognize this and respond accordingly. It's like much of life these days, there is always someone out there who insists that their way is the best and proceeds to force or try to force it down everyone's throat. Our teaching system reflects this restrictive and counterproductive approach. No student left behind works only at the expense of everyone else who become bored to tears. While the concept is laudable, the actuality is shamefully destructive.

I cant' believe I am defending public school teachers unions, but states without teachers unions like Texas are showing the same poor scores, and college kids aren't learning a whole hell of a lot either and their teachers aren't unionized, right? Plus college costs are rising as fast as public schools and this is in a market economy which should keep prices lower.

I think the poor scores are just part of a societal breakdown. Many parents don't seem to care as much about their kid's education, and if they do care about grades, they want the teachers to give the kids undeserved higher ones.

Plus so many broken households mean a lack of discipline at home and little respect for authority at school.

I feel bad for the great teachers out there who are lumped in with the worthless ones. Imagine working for a company that's floundering because of low productivity from fellow workers who can't seem to be replaced no matter how bad they are. Imagine not being paid more even though you work harder and produce superior results.

Now imagine if we had a health care system that worked the same way....bad doctors paid the same as good ones and taxpayers forced to roll the dice on which doctor their family is lucky enough to get. This would never fly, but somehow we've accepted this concept for the kids who will one day be taking care of this country.

SS109 wrote: I cant' believe I am defending public school teachers unions, but states without teachers unions like Texas are showing the same poor scores, and college kids aren't learning a whole hell of a lot either and their teachers aren't unionized, right? Plus college costs are rising as fast as public schools and this is in a market economy which should keep prices lower.

I think the poor scores are just part of a societal breakdown. Many parents don't seem to care as much about their kid's education, and if they do care about grades, they want the teachers to give the kids undeserved higher ones.

Plus so many broken households mean a lack of discipline at home and little respect for authority at school.

Did you watch the program? There are charter schools that go into the worst areas of cities and end up doing much better than public schools using less money. These schools often are much more disciplined and don't take any crap from little bastards who think they can run the place. The public school system has been failing for years....just blaming parents won't fix the problem.

This is a great example of what can be done in bad nieghborhoods with no more funding than public schools. http://www.aimschools.org/aipcs_welcome.shtml

SS109 wrote: I cant' believe I am defending public school teachers unions, but states without teachers unions like Texas are showing the same poor scores, and college kids aren't learning a whole hell of a lot either and their teachers aren't unionized, right? Plus college costs are rising as fast as public schools and this is in a market economy which should keep prices lower.

I think the poor scores are just part of a societal breakdown. Many parents don't seem to care as much about their kid's education, and if they do care about grades, they want the teachers to give the kids undeserved higher ones.

Plus so many broken households mean a lack of discipline at home and little respect for authority at school.

Your point is well take. Education does begin in the home and much of the blame must fall there. Yet, I still feel good teachers can and will make a positive difference. Think back on your primary education. I can recall one math teacher who absolutely turned me off first in 8th grade algebra and then again in Geometry. Thankfully another inspiring teacher rescued me with algebra in 9th grade and demonstrated to me that I could do the math. I had no such reprieve with Geometry. Poor teachers do a lot of harm that not even good parenting can necessarily undo.

Looks as if several here are products of poor teacher education as well as non participation at home.