Stupid In America

CriticalBill wrote: [Did you watch the program? There are charter schools that go into the worst areas of cities and end up doing much better than public schools using less money. These schools often are much more disciplined and don't take any crap from little bastards who think they can run the place. The public school system has been failing for years....just blaming parents won't fix the problem.

The schools you are talking about are self-selected for involved, motivated parents. Just the fact that they would go to the trouble of moving their children to a charter school they think will be better for their educations shows that. The unmotivated, distracted, overwhelmed, mentally ill, abusive and or/drug and alcohol addicted parents aren't going to go to the trouble of putting their kids in a charter school to begin with.

CriticalBill wrote:

SS109 wrote: I cant' believe I am defending public school teachers unions, but states without teachers unions like Texas are showing the same poor scores, and college kids aren't learning a whole hell of a lot either and their teachers aren't unionized, right? Plus college costs are rising as fast as public schools and this is in a market economy which should keep prices lower.

I think the poor scores are just part of a societal breakdown. Many parents don't seem to care as much about their kid's education, and if they do care about grades, they want the teachers to give the kids undeserved higher ones.

Plus so many broken households mean a lack of discipline at home and little respect for authority at school.

Did you watch the program? There are charter schools that go into the worst areas of cities and end up doing much better than public schools using less money. These schools often are much more disciplined and don't take any crap from little bastards who think they can run the place. The public school system has been failing for years....just blaming parents won't fix the problem.

The problem with the charter school example is that usually the parents who care enough to arrange charter schooling for their children, cared enough to send them to school with a good base and that family respects schooling.

I went to private school and most of my classmates went onto college right after graduation or right after time in the military. Part of that is parents cared enough to spend money on education and felt vested in the system. And part of it is that poor teachers were fired. But part of it also was the cream rising to the top. If you were a poor student or didn't care, you were likely to drop out or the parents didn't feel like investing the money in you.
So, once again, if you get a pool of motivated students whose parents care, you are more likely to do better as a charter school.

AspenValley wrote:

CriticalBill wrote: [Did you watch the program? There are charter schools that go into the worst areas of cities and end up doing much better than public schools using less money. These schools often are much more disciplined and don't take any crap from little bastards who think they can run the place. The public school system has been failing for years....just blaming parents won't fix the problem.

The schools you are talking about are self-selected for involved, motivated parents. Just the fact that they would go to the trouble of moving their children to a charter school they think will be better for their educations shows that. The unmotivated, distracted, overwhelmed, mentally ill, abusive and or/drug and alcohol addicted parents aren't going to go to the trouble of putting their kids in a charter school to begin with.

And I wonder if we really need to stop wasting the money on these kids and parents who could care less about their education. If you let these distractions drop out earlier and go to work, would the remaining students do better?

Some people just don't do well in a school enviorment and would be better off learning on the job.

Rockdoc Franz wrote: According to the head of or former head of teacher unions, they are the most self serving representation in the nation. Union first, .

Well duh! Do guys even know what a union is? They represent it's members like a lawyer represents their clients...Thats who they work for..They arent there to better the education, they are hired to get more for their clients..And there's nothing wrong with that..

Clueless!

This is like saying "Hey that lawyer knows that his client is guilty, yet he still defends him!"

Yep, thats how it works in America

I got a guy his job back after he stabbed another employee..Pinned his hand to a table with a large knife..A good shop steward will defend his members to the death, just like a lawyer, and if he doesn't, he can get sued in court for not representing the member



C'mon guys..Know what your talkin about before ya start talkin..please..It's a major problem on this board and quite frankly, a fatal flaw because if I leave, thats the main reason..Its all hot air, especially from the Right. I don't have time to educate, then argue

Vice Lord wrote:

Rockdoc Franz wrote: According to the head of or former head of teacher unions, they are the most self serving representation in the nation. Union first, .

Well duh! Do guys even know what a union is? They represent it's members like a lawyer represents their clients...Thats who they work for..They arent there to better the education, they are hired to get more for their clients..And there's nothing wrong with that..

Clueless!

This is like saying "Hey that lawyer knows that his client is guilty, yet he still defends him!"

Yep, thats how it works in America

I got a guy his job back after he stabbed another employee..Pinned his hand to a table with a large knife..A good shop steward will defend his members to the death, just like a lawyer, and if he doesn't, he can get sued in court for not representing the member



C'mon guys..Know what your talkin about before ya start talkin..please..It's a major problem on this board and quite frankly, a fatal flaw because if I leave, thats the main reason..Its all hot air, especially from the Right. I don't have time to educate, then argue

Reason #1 to get rid of unions is above.
At least school teacher unions are smart enough to discard their members who are pedophiles. VL would keep them around like the Catholic Church, just move them around the district.

:rofl

SS109 wrote: Reason #1 to get rid of unions is above.

Yeah because all business's have to have to good of the community as their number one priorty...haha

Using that logic, there would be no business's alowed in America

The funny part of that is that Unions are probably the only business that is good for Americans..We created the middle class and raised the standard of living of each and every person in this country..

Does Standard Oil do that?

Vice Lord wrote:

SS109 wrote: Reason #1 to get rid of unions is above.

Yeah because all business's have to have to good of the community as their number one priorty...haha

Using that logic, there would be no business's alowed in America

The funny part of that is that Unions are probably the only business that is good for Americans..We created the middle class and raised the standard of living of each and every person in this country..

Does Standard Oil do that?

What do teachers unions do to ensure a good level of QUALITY teachers?

Same as other unions, take care of the bad apples and the act appalled when they get caught.

CriticalBill wrote:

Vice Lord wrote:

SS109 wrote: Reason #1 to get rid of unions is above.

Yeah because all business's have to have to good of the community as their number one priorty...haha

Using that logic, there would be no business's alowed in America

The funny part of that is that Unions are probably the only business that is good for Americans..We created the middle class and raised the standard of living of each and every person in this country..

Does Standard Oil do that?

What do teachers unions do to ensure a good level of QUALITY teachers?

Nothing! Thats not their function. They represent workers wether it's teachers or Iron Workers...Did you even read my postings?

If you did then I stronglty recomend you enroll in the basic reading comprehension class that Red Rocks Community college is offfering this fall. Jeeez