California Couple Fined $300 for Holding Home Bible Studies

BearMtnHIB wrote: Just one more example of how private property rights are being removed from each and every one of us by local government run amok.

If I want to have 50 people at my house - it should be my right to do so, weather it's bible study or a summer BBQ.

Local zoning codes are limiting our freedoms every day- I hope the property owners win this case- not on religious freedom grounds - but on the grounds that a city has no business telling property owners when they can have guests at their house.

How would you like to have to ask permission to have a BBQ or birthday party at your house? That's exactly what a "permit" is- permission. And the fee for that permission is called a "tax". Would it be OK for Jefferson County to tax you and require premission for you to have a BBQ or birthday party?

"We here at Jeffco will permit you to have a birthday party at your house- on your own property". I assume I already have this right- and I do not give it up for any reason- I want to reserve all my rights as a property owner.

This is bullsh**!

I, for one, am glad there are zoning codes that are enforced. How would you like it if your neighbor decided to open a slaughter house on his land? What if your neighbor decided that they would like to open up their land for septic disposal? Or a garbage dump? Or a mining operation? After all, it's his land and the government should just keep their nose out of his business, right?

I, for one, am glad there are zoning codes that are enforced. How would you like it if your neighbor decided to open a slaughter house on his land? What if your neighbor decided that they would like to open up their land for septic disposal? Or a garbage dump? Or a mining operation? After all, it's his land and the government should just keep their nose out of his business, right?

I guess we should all be afraid- because these thing are happening every day right? NO they are not.

Again- bullsh**! Dont try to come up with what youy think is reasoning for taking away freedom, your ninny nanny state that you advocate for is already creeping in on us thanks to people like you. This is just one more thing to add on to the massive pile of government regulations, rules and restrictions that are not necessary.

All of those examples you state Kate- could be addressed without a zoning code. Do you really need a law restricting every single thing a homeowner can do Kate? Not me. I bought my home away from HOA's and other restrictions because I want to reserve my property rights - I want my local government to stop adding rules and restrictions.

For those of you who need these restrictions- move to a place like Highlands ranch, heck they even tell you what color to paint your house, what flowers you can plant in your flower bed and how long you can leave your garage door open.

If you really need all that crap- move to a place that loves to make restrictions and rules, move in with your own kind- and leave me and my property rights & freedom alone!

I'm far more interested in preserving my rights as a propery owner, than I am telling my neighbors what they can and can't do.

BearMtnHIB wrote: I'm far more interested in preserving my rights as a propery owner, than I am telling my neighbors what they can and can't do.

It's got more to do with the impact to the local roads than private property rights. That's a lot of extra traffic.

BearMtnHIB wrote:

I, for one, am glad there are zoning codes that are enforced. How would you like it if your neighbor decided to open a slaughter house on his land? What if your neighbor decided that they would like to open up their land for septic disposal? Or a garbage dump? Or a mining operation? After all, it's his land and the government should just keep their nose out of his business, right?

I guess we should all be afraid- because these thing are happening every day right? NO they are not.

Again- bullsh**! Dont try to come up with what youy think is reasoning for taking away freedom, your ninny nanny state that you advocate for is already creeping in on us thanks to people like you. This is just one more thing to add on to the massive pile of government regulations, rules and restrictions that are not necessary.

All of those examples you state Kate- could be addressed without a zoning code. Do you really need a law restricting every single thing a homeowner can do Kate? Not me. I bought my home away from HOA's and other restrictions because I want to reserve my property rights - I want my local government to stop adding rules and restrictions.

For those of you who need these restrictions- move to a place like Highlands ranch, heck they even tell you what color to paint your house, what flowers you can plant in your flower bed and how long you can leave your garage door open.

If you really need all that crap- move to a place that loves to make restrictions and rules, move in with your own kind- and leave me and my property rights & freedom alone!

I'm far more interested in preserving my rights as a propery owner, than I am telling my neighbors what they can and can't do.

Wow. Guess I hit a nerve. BTW - This case of the zoning violation is in southern California, not in Bailey.

I guess you're okay if your neighbor opens up a 7-11 on property next to you, because that's what your utopian "no zoning codes" scenario would allow. Codes are there to protect citizens. I'm sorry that you don't see that.

Kate wrote:

BearMtnHIB wrote:

I, for one, am glad there are zoning codes that are enforced. How would you like it if your neighbor decided to open a slaughter house on his land? What if your neighbor decided that they would like to open up their land for septic disposal? Or a garbage dump? Or a mining operation? After all, it's his land and the government should just keep their nose out of his business, right?

I guess we should all be afraid- because these thing are happening every day right? NO they are not.

Again- bullsh**! Dont try to come up with what youy think is reasoning for taking away freedom, your ninny nanny state that you advocate for is already creeping in on us thanks to people like you. This is just one more thing to add on to the massive pile of government regulations, rules and restrictions that are not necessary.

All of those examples you state Kate- could be addressed without a zoning code. Do you really need a law restricting every single thing a homeowner can do Kate? Not me. I bought my home away from HOA's and other restrictions because I want to reserve my property rights - I want my local government to stop adding rules and restrictions.

For those of you who need these restrictions- move to a place like Highlands ranch, heck they even tell you what color to paint your house, what flowers you can plant in your flower bed and how long you can leave your garage door open.

If you really need all that crap- move to a place that loves to make restrictions and rules, move in with your own kind- and leave me and my property rights & freedom alone!

I'm far more interested in preserving my rights as a propery owner, than I am telling my neighbors what they can and can't do.

Wow. Guess I hit a nerve. BTW - This case of the zoning violation is in southern California, not in Bailey.

I guess you're okay if your neighbor opens up a 7-11 on property next to you, because that's what your utopian "no zoning codes" scenario would allow. Codes are there to protect citizens. I'm sorry that you don't see that.

Kate, you're obviously not from around here, Bailey, Evergreen, whatever. Next up try reading comprehension.

That's why we live here so we can have 100 peeps over everyday if we want.

There is a little thing called a "Zoning Variance". All counties have them. It is the property owners responsibility to know how their property is zoned. They don't just sneak stuff in the codes after you buy the property. These regs have alwys been there. Ignorance or disagreement with them is no excuse.

If they want to be granted an exception or "Variance" to the zoning regulations for your property, then there are specific steps to take to change them. Could be a silly thing like a flag pole, or another access driveway or being allowed to have more people on you property, or more animals, or a garage, or a business. Often it includes public comments from guess who?? YOUR NEIGHBORS!!

The zoning laws, rules and restrictions for each individual parcel have always been there. Just because you get an idea to do something on your property that may or may not benefit others or have no actual impact at all you must still follow the law, regulations or codes until they changed to fit your needs. Your freedoms are the same as when you built or bought the property.

No-one is going to open a 7-11 next door to me. If they did it would go out of business. No one is starting a garbage dump- or a septic farm- or a mine.

We could contemplate for days about all the things that "could" happen- but have never happened and are not likely to ever happen- So do we need a law for every possible senerio?

I say no we don't. I moved out of Boulder county because they seem to have a restriction for everything there. They have literally spent year after year inventing possible senerios of things to restrict, and then they made a zoning restriction for them all. Boulder's zoning and building code is as thick as a phone book. Virtually every homeowner there is in violation of somthing now- and most homes are in multiple violations, it's just a matter of "if and when" the county wants to start enforcing and harassing it's property owners. Stories like this one come up when the county singles out a homeowner with court cases and fines.

A zoning retsriction like the one here literally prohibits a homeowner from having a birthday party- a BBQ- any get together at a private home. Is that the world you want to live in? If so there are communities where you will fit right in.

I do not want to live like that- I bought my property in an area without those kinds of encumbrances for a reason. I had and have an expectation of freedom from restrictions like this.

I have a right to presume my freedom to have a BBQ or a birthday party or a bible study get together at my house without my local government requiring a fee or permit or permission. People like you do not have a right to move in next to me and start adding restrictions where there were none before, but that's exactly what is happening to all of us- they add more every year.

I'm interested in retaining and preserving the rights I had when I purchased my property, I'm not so worried about my neighbor's bible study that I would give up my own right to have a BBQ at my place. Would you really give up your right in order to restrict your neighbors?

I'm not interested in relinquishing any freedom that I have a presumptive right to expect. I'm not interested in your nanny state.

I gave those examples only as a way of taking your argument to its logical, albeit extreme, conclusion. It seems to me that you want absolutely no zoning regulations on your land or that surrounding you. (Correct me if I am wrong on that point.) If there are no regulations, then your neighbor is free to do whatever he wants with his property, regardless of how it impacts you. Therefore, he could open up any kind of business - septic dumping, garbage, gravel pit, whatever - without regard to your wishes. That's what zoning codes prevent.

I can only assume that if your neighbor had 50 people over twice a week (or more), with 30 cars or so, parking in his driveway, on the road, wherever they can fit, and had a BBQ, perhaps playing loud music until 3:00 am, that you would be fine with that?

Now, you could make the argument that the 50 people zoning limitation is silly, but in a residential neighborhood, such as in the southern California situation, it certainly makes more sense than it does here in the mountains.

If the city has a zoning ordinance against such large gatherings in a residential neighborhood, how can you say it's about religion? Sounds more like conspiracy theory to say that the city is suppressing religious gatherings, rather than this was a simple case of violating city regulations. For that many people why not use the church, or other commercial space designed to handle that many people and cars?