999 and it not producing enough revenue.

archer wrote: I'm tired of righties claiming that the Democrats don't think we have a spending problem, only a revenue problem. It just isn't true. YES we have a spending problem, but we also have a revenue problem. We can cut our deficit faster by BOTH cutting spending AND increasing revenue. Time is money folks, and we need to do everything we can to bring our deficit down. Just like a family trying to get out from under credit card debt, they need to cut back as much as possible and if necessary take on a second job to increase their income till the debt is paid. There is a lot of interest associated with our debt, the faster we pay it off by using every means we can....including increasing revenue, the sooner we get back on a sound financial footing. Basic economics.

If the Dems know it, then why do they keep wanting more bills every 6 months or to spend more and more. They SAY they know but they just can't stop!

The Viking wrote:

archer wrote: I'm tired of righties claiming that the Democrats don't think we have a spending problem, only a revenue problem. It just isn't true. YES we have a spending problem, but we also have a revenue problem. We can cut our deficit faster by BOTH cutting spending AND increasing revenue. Time is money folks, and we need to do everything we can to bring our deficit down. Just like a family trying to get out from under credit card debt, they need to cut back as much as possible and if necessary take on a second job to increase their income till the debt is paid. There is a lot of interest associated with our debt, the faster we pay it off by using every means we can....including increasing revenue, the sooner we get back on a sound financial footing. Basic economics.

If the Dems know it, then why do they keep wanting more bills every 6 months or to spend more and more. They SAY they know but they just can't stop!

I don't know.......maybe for the same reason the Republicans in the house concentrate on bills about abortion instead of dealing with the economy. They do what they know best......Dem's know how to spend (but they also know how to raise revenue) Republicans know how to invade our private lives and create bills they know will never pass but sure do make them look like good God fearing Christians to their constituents. None of them are really serious about fixing the economy.....just sounding like they are. I am sick to death of the whole lot of them.

999 is simply a back door to VAT

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but later if implemented income taxes can go back up (part of our constitution). SCAM.

We have a vast underbelly of unemployed just as Europe does - get over it

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get skills or stay on the dole forever. Subsistance living for the rust belt is here to stay.

neptunechimney wrote: I know someone will correct me if I am wrong. I believe Cane told Gregory on Meet the Press today that SS will be exempt from the 9% income tax.

Really? He actually would expect to get the provision to remove SS payments from being taxed through both houses of Congress? And you believe that?

I'll correct you...but only kinda....

I did not watch but even if it does not include exemptions for SS or low income people...it is just a proposed plan and such things will be included after it goes through congress, gets debated and changed...

In fact if he was elected and the 999 (11-11-11) plan starts to move forward...after it comes out of the other side of congress it will likely look 98% like the current tax program, just newer with shiny paint. I say this because the same interests have the same influence and the system cannot change that much, cause it is America and our system are slow, by design and for good reason, even if we don't always like it.

archer wrote: I have heard a lot of things, not sure if even Cain knows what it includes and what it doesn't....but like our current tax code, once you start with the deductions, or credits, or exemptions then it all goes down hill till the tax code is 6 inches thick. A 999 plan is so fundamentally unfair to the poor and the middle class that there will need to be all kinds of exceptions...

Start with a graduated simple system, and the need for exemptions is greatly diminished. We absolutely have to trash our current code, but there is nothing to be gained by replacing it with something that simply will not work.

but....999 sure does sound catchy....

A lower corporate tax rate would probably bring retail prices down. This should help to offset the higher sales tax.
And by including SS payments in the plan, it wouldn't increase actual income taxes much on lower income people.

But 9-9-9 would never pass, but I do like Cain introducing the proposal to ignite debate about our overly complex tax code.

For those of you who say the plan is too simple, do you prefer the current system?

Lot of mis-ifo...
Read it yourself...
http://www.hermancain.com/h
http://www.hermancain.com/999plan

OK, question. Using an example of a mother with 2 kids making 20,000 living in NH. No sales tax and most likely they are in the 47% who pay no taxes. They are getting by on about $1667 per month for rent or mortgage, food, gas, insurance, two kids clothes, utilities, gas for their car to drive to work, and a few other things. With this plan of adding 9% federal tax to all, they lose $1800 per year that is $150 per month. And if they fill up only once a week at 18 gallons. they are paying $25 more per month for gas since that is included in here and added on top of the 18 cents per gallon we already pay for federal tax on gas. And they now also have to pay an extra 9% sales tax which NH and 4 other states don't have and most other states are a lot lower than 9%. So if they are paying $400 a month for food and clothes they now have $45 more they lose. so this example where Cain promised that this would NOT raise taxes on the lower class, (which he admitted on Sunday morning that it would on some), is costing this lady and her two kids $220 more per month our of her $1667. That is losing 13% of her income to the new taxes! She now only has $1447 for ALL her bills. What does she cut out? Food? Heat? Shoes for her kids that have holes in them? Insurance and let the government eat more of the cost?

And if 47% of people pay NO taxes right now and he is telling them that they will now have to give up almost 10% of thier income, WHO exactly is going to vote for this when the true numbers come out?

And this plan ASSUMES that businesses will lower their prices? What if they don't? It is a WHAT IF and MAYBE plan. I don't like it! I like Cain but not this plan.

Look at this chart of the state sales taxes. The left column. Most all are between 4-6%. You can't take off the local taxes and surchrges as they will stay. Now they will be 9%? So almost every state will have a 33-50% increase in sales tax now. Everyone! Tham includes the people bringing home $800 per month with a part time job. They lose 9% of that if they buy essentials. How is this a good plan?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxe ... ted_States

TPP wrote: Lot of mis-ifo...
Read it yourself...
http://www.hermancain.com/h
http://www.hermancain.com/999plan

I've read that site several times. The reason for any "mis-ifo" is that Cain's site is not specific enough.

The only deduction it mentions is for charity. So we are left to assume Social Security is taxable because he makes no mention of it. It's strange that he does point out capital gains won't be taxed, but doesn't mention Social Security which effects many more people.

For the business tax he says gross income would be taxed. That's not the same business tax we have now where only profits are taxed. It sounds like a VAT.

pineinthegrass wrote:

TPP wrote: Lot of mis-ifo...
Read it yourself...
http://www.hermancain.com/h
http://www.hermancain.com/999plan

I've read that site several times. The reason for any "mis-ifo" is that Cain's site is not specific enough.

The only deduction it mentions is for charity. So we are left to assume Social Security is taxable because he makes no mention of it. It's strange that he does point out capital gains won't be taxed, but doesn't mention Social Security which effects many more people.

For the business tax he says gross income would be taxed. That's not the same business tax we have now where only profits are taxed. It sounds like a VAT.

Many people are saying it is a VAT tax by another name. VAT taxes are a HUGE failure that never go away!