Rick Perry's plan calls for Forbes Flat tax. Great plan!

Two major obstacles to overcome: get elected president and get the plan through Congress.

Conservation Voice wrote: Two major obstacles to overcome: get elected president and get the plan through Congress.

Agreed. I think this plan when all the details come out and his energy plan will go a long way to help him get elected. He hasn't spent hardly any of the money he has brought in. I think he is saving it up for a campaign blitz in Nov and Dec right before the primaries. Letting Cain's plan hang itself first.

And Why wouldn't congress pass this? Especially if the R's controll both houses which is extremely likely.

And you call me a moron.

Neither obstacle will be overcome.

Conservation Voice wrote: And you call me a moron.

Neither obstacle will be overcome.

I ask why and this is your answer? No answer. Why not? Or is it throwing crap out there again with no real reason other than you don't like the candidates?

The Viking wrote: Please answer that first but I am going to give an example based upon Forbes plan for a family of 4.

$75,000 - $26,000 ($13,000 each) for two adult deductions = $49,000 - $10,000 ($5,000 each) for two kids deductions = $39,000 to pay taxes on times 17% = $6,630 in taxes on $75,000 which equals 8.8% total in taxes. MUCH lower than it is for them now which is 25% at that bracket.

$1 million - the $36,000 in deductions = $964,000 times 17% = $163,880. Which equals 16.38% of thier income.

Then look at a family of 4 making $40,000. subtract the $36,000 and they are only paying 17% on $4000 which comes to $680 which equals 1.7% in taxes for the year.

It is NOT the same. The deductions disproportionately help the lower and middle class. It does nothing for the millionaires and they loose the loopholes. 16.38% compared to 8.8% or 1.7% is NOT at all the same ammount of taxes! A family of 4 making $75,000 pays about half the tax rate of millionaires.

Viking, you clearly don't understand how to calculate taxes in our current system. I've already explained that just because you are in the 25% bracket doesn't mean that's what you really pay. But you choose to ignore it.

So I've gone ahead and ran your examples of a family of four making $75K and $40K through my 2010 tax software so you can see how much less they pay now than they would with a 17% flat tax.

In both cases they get a standard deduction of $11,400. With a flat tax, that goes away. They also get an exemption of $14,600 (family of four = 4 x $3,650). So that's a total subtraction of $26,000.

So for a family making $75K, their taxable income is $49,000 ($75,000-$26,000). Using the tax tables, the tax on that comes to $6516. That's already less than the $6630 you calculated for the flat tax. But that's not all. In addition they get a $2000 child tax credit for their two kids. So their total tax bill under current law is just $4516.

For the family making $40K, their taxable income is just $14,000. Tax on that is $1403. But they too qualify for a $2000 child tax credit. And since they are lower income, they also qualify for a $1126 earned income credit. Adding it up, they end up with a $1723 refund.

So your 17% flat tax increases the taxes due for the $75K family by $2114 (+47%) and it increases the taxes due for the $40K family by $2403.

Do you understand it now??

pineinthegrass wrote:

The Viking wrote: Please answer that first but I am going to give an example based upon Forbes plan for a family of 4.

$75,000 - $26,000 ($13,000 each) for two adult deductions = $49,000 - $10,000 ($5,000 each) for two kids deductions = $39,000 to pay taxes on times 17% = $6,630 in taxes on $75,000 which equals 8.8% total in taxes. MUCH lower than it is for them now which is 25% at that bracket.

$1 million - the $36,000 in deductions = $964,000 times 17% = $163,880. Which equals 16.38% of thier income.

Then look at a family of 4 making $40,000. subtract the $36,000 and they are only paying 17% on $4000 which comes to $680 which equals 1.7% in taxes for the year.

It is NOT the same. The deductions disproportionately help the lower and middle class. It does nothing for the millionaires and they loose the loopholes. 16.38% compared to 8.8% or 1.7% is NOT at all the same ammount of taxes! A family of 4 making $75,000 pays about half the tax rate of millionaires.

Viking, you clearly don't understand how to calculate taxes in our current system. I've already explained that just because you are in the 25% bracket doesn't mean that's what you really pay. But you choose to ignore it.

So I've gone ahead and ran your examples of a family of four making $75K and $40K through my 2010 tax software so you can see how much less they pay now than they would with a 17% flat tax.

In both cases they get a standard deduction of $11,400. With a flat tax, that goes away. They also get an exemption of $14,600 (family of four = 4 x $3,650). So that's a total subtraction of $26,000.

So for a family making $75K, their taxable income is $49,000 ($75,000-$26,000). Using the tax tables, the tax on that comes to $6516. That's already less than the $6630 you calculated for the flat tax. But that's not all. In addition they get a $2000 child tax credit for their two kids. So their total tax bill under current law is just $4516.

For the family making $40K, their taxable income is just $14,000. Tax on that is $1403. But they too qualify for a $2000 child tax credit. And since they are lower income, they also qualify for a $1126 earned income credit. Adding it up, they end up with a $1723 refund.

So your 17% flat tax increases the taxes due for the $75K family by $2114 (+47%) and it increases the taxes due for the $40K family by $2403.

Do you understand it now??

Doesn't the child tax credit get taken out BEFORE it is taxed? And if not I need to readjust mine because the tax credit for this plan is $5000 for each child (much higher than the $2000 currently) and I took that off the groos income. So we can adjust that up $10,000, tax them another $1700 and then subtract $10,000 from the end total and they will recieve even MORE money back than your plan. Thanks for pointing that out! They save even MORE money the way you did it.

And my understanding is that the Child tax credit just went down to $1000 under this year under obama. SO your number are skewed.

http://20somethingfinance.com/child-tax-credit/

Viking you are confusing deductions and credits...a deduction lowers your taxable income a credit lowers your taxes. Im posting on the cell so I wont elaborate further.

The Viking wrote: Doesn't the child tax credit get taken out BEFORE it is taxed? And if not I need to readjust mine because the tax credit for this plan is $5000 for each child (much higher than the $2000 currently) and I took that off the groos income. So we can adjust that up $10,000, tax them another $1700 and then subtract $10,000 from the end total and they will recieve even MORE money back than your plan. Thanks for pointing that out! They save even MORE money the way you did it.

No, the child tax credit is subtracted after you figure out the tax due under our current system.

But you don't do that with a flat tax. There are no credits for a true flat tax. Instead, they kind of rolled the equivalent of the child tax credit into their one big "exemption". But that is subtracted before calculating the tax, just as you did it in your examples.

And by the way, I didn't even get into the home mortgage. The family making $75K probably owns a home. If so, they can itemize and subtract even more than the standard deduction off their income. With a home, they'd owe even much less under our current system.

The fact is, the flat tax hits the middle class very hard just as the 9-9-9 would. And it's much easier to calculate the effect of the flat tax as well. Right now, the middle class (middle 20%) pays on average about 7% of their income in taxes after deductions, exemptions, and credits (I can get the CBO numbers if you want).

I actually don't mind some of the concepts of the flat tax, though. But I feel you need at least two tax brackets, and maybe three. Other Republicans like Paul Ryan and I think Huntsman have already suggested something like that.

Yeah, great plan "guys"...92% of Americans would pay more taxes...Great! Watch the Tea Baggers run with it

lol F-ing morons

Vice Lord wrote: Yeah, great plan "guys"...92% of Americans would pay more taxes...Great! Watch the Tea Baggers run with it

lol F-ing morons

Yeah good one! :bash :bash It is proven that 115% of all stats are made up! rofllol :rofl

92%. You just proved that you don't even belong in this adult conversation. So clueless.....