Do Voters Matter?

Do you think that Wall Street and/or big political donors actually control the goverment?

Or do you think they have some influence but voters still have the ability to throw out corrupt politicians?

Personally I think they exercise more influence than they should but I do believe voters can throw out the bums. Look how many incumbents the Tea Party threw out in 2010. But too often people choose (D) or (R) instead of who has been corrupted or not.

1%'rs? Only 1/2 the people in Congress and the Senate are in the 99%.
And would you support a political or voilent overthrow of the goverment?
I think America can still be saved with the ballot box, it is just harder to get people organized but possibly all the new media can help with this.

I think Wall Street, big political donors, and lobbyists have a huge influence in the government. I don't know that I'd go so far as to say they "control" the government.

Voters have all the ability and power to throw out corrupt politicians...most of the time the voters either do not use their power or they do not know the issues well enough to vote intelligently or they vote myopically.

As far as me supporting a political overthrow of the government...maybe...it depends on how it is run. A violent overthrow of the government? Never.

Here's something I wrote two years ago... I've actually become more pessimistic since then, but I'll post this and you can take away from it what you want.

I don't consider myself a nihilist in the pure sense of the word, but I will admit I recently have started to adopt some level of nihilism in my personal philosophy.
And it may do this country some good if more of John Q. Public started to consider adding a little nihilism to the mix. It’s healthy, in my opinion.
I think our love affair with this political party or that political party should be over. Yes, it feels good to be behind the winner, or work earnestly for the loser and turn the country around, but in my opinion, that task has become similar to chasing rainbows.

Sure, down here in the trenches, it feels really good to think that we are fulfilling all of those democratic principles by working for this candidate or that candidate, but that is only an exercise designed to keep us occupied and busy. We know that special interest groups, Pac’s and big business donates funds to both sides of competing political thoughts. Well, why the hell do you think they do that? Because, in that way, they are going to have their hand up that politicians rear, pulling the strings, no matter what party that politician comes from.

Meanwhile, the real power brokers (who, let me give you a clue, are not us) are playing us for fools. And no, I'm not talking about the One World Order bull, I'm talking about the fact that our politicians are the bag men for the special interest lobby. It doesn't take some deeply entrenched conspiracy to make this all work. There’s not some multi-webbed clandestine plan to take over the world. It’s much more simple than that. Big business will do anything to advance their empire, and we are simply the money producing fodder for their addiction. Big business wants to make big money, at any expense, and they don't care who they steamroll in that quest. We know this, we feel this, we hope it's not true, but we know it is.

What can we do. Vote as many of them out as we can. Look at the ballots. If there is a freshman politician looking for a seat in Washington, vote for that person. If there are two incumbents on the ballot, check out their tenure in DC and vote for the one that has been there the shortest amount of time. Do this across party lines. Our battle is not partisan, it is against the whole entrenched system. We can't stop this in one fell swoop, and the new blood that we send to DC may have to
be removed later by us, but we can punch enough holes in their system to slow them down. Sort of political speed bumps. And after we slow them down, then maybe we can work on real change. The incumbents need to be fired.

Until then, while we keep playing partisan games, we are playing right into their hands, giving them all the room they need to continue to screw us. A little nihilism, think about it.

Since I wrote this, we've had the 2010 elections, and even though there has been a lot new freshman politicians voted into the House, I really don't see any changes. Bottom line, they are still all embolden to special interest and that's who runs the show. At this point, don't really know what to do. But the Occupy folks are just useful idiots for the powers to be. The will accomplish nothing and be left feeling like they changed the world. Until they bother to look under the hood, and find the same stinking engine running the country.

SS109 wrote: Do you think that Wall Street and/or big political donors actually control the goverment?

Or do you think they have some influence but voters still have the ability to throw out corrupt politicians?

Personally I think they exercise more influence than they should but I do believe voters can throw out the bums. Look how many incumbents the Tea Party threw out in 2010. But too often people choose (D) or (R) instead of who has been corrupted or not.

1%'rs? Only 1/2 the people in Congress and the Senate are in the 99%.
And would you support a political or voilent overthrow of the goverment?
I think America can still be saved with the ballot box, it is just harder to get people organized but possibly all the new media can help with this.

Harder to get people organized... people can't organize...

And yet, winter looms and authorities in other cities have been cracking down on encampments, sometimes violently. The mayor’s patience with the occupation seems to be wearing thin, and local residents have tired of the headaches associated with the protest. An influx of outsiders to the park, meanwhile, has threatened the protesters’ ability to organize.

More broadly, the protest’s leaderless and nonhierarchical structure raises the question of how effective it can be. The demonstrators have yet to proffer clear demands and have rejected any involvement in electoral politics. And it remains to be seen what will become of the action should they lose their foothold at Zuccotti Park.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/nyreg ... wanted=all

Any wonder?

If could change Congress, I would have strict term limits and severely restrict special interests.

Anybody see the story on Jack Abramoff on 60 Minutes last night? He explained how he bought people in Congressmen's offices and claimed he had influence on over 100 Congress people. It was pretty scary just how easy it was for him.

His main suggestion was to make it illegal for anyone in Congress (including staff) to ever work as a lobbyist after leaving office. That's how he bought many of his people, by offering them a lobbyist job that would pay 3X as much after they left office.

Here's the video...

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7387331n&tag=contentMain;cbsCarousel

pineinthegrass wrote: Anybody see the story on Jack Abramoff on 60 Minutes last night? He explained how he bought people in Congressmen's offices and claimed he had influence on over 100 Congress people. It was pretty scary just how easy it was for him.

His main suggestion was to make it illegal for anyone in Congress (including staff) to ever work as a lobbyist after leaving office. That's how he bought many of his people, by offering them a lobbyist job that would pay 3X as much after they left office.

Here's the video...

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7387331n&tag=contentMain;cbsCarousel

And you think that would change everything? It wouldn't change squat. The Political Class (tm) will always find a new way to screw you. Smarten up.

And you think that would change everything? It wouldn't change squat. The Political Class (tm) will always find a new way to screw you. Smarten up.[/quote]

I thought I made it clear that was Abramoff's suggestion.

And if you watch the video, he also stated the obvious that lobbists can find ways around laws and he gave at least one example of how they get around the tighter laws that were passed after he was caught.

I do think his suggestion would at least help, but I don't think it could be implemented because how could it be enforced?

And "evil lobbyists" can easily become protectors depending on which side of the issue you are. Retired person? AARP, lobbies to keep Social Security for you. Hunt? The NRA lobbies to keep your access to shotguns. Work in the pharmaceutical industry? They lobby the FDA to decrease approval lead times.

I wonder if a independent Presidential candidate will ever emerge that tries to appeal to the moderates that will win him/her a victory over the Dem and GOP choices. This year might be the year for it to happen, except it looks like both Obama and Romney already are moderates who will keep us on the current path to ruin.

Even though voters retain the power to "throw the bums out" the big money retains the power to ensure that the next guy we vote on is the same kind of bum. They've effectively silenced communocation between the parties so the chance of the two sides uniting in a single cause is remote at best. We did this tomourselves, and I see it continuing here every single day.