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50 Scientist/Astronauts condemn NASA's AGW endorsement
12 Apr 2012 13:55 #22
by Reverend Revelant
That's been my position from square one. But that's not good enough for the left. Government subsidized renewables is just another way for the left to gain control of a whole industry, and control is job one in the leftist ideology. Same thing with health care, climate concerns... if you can't distribute the wealth through outright socialism, find other seculars religions and start a new crusade.
Waiting for Armageddon since 33 AD
Replied by Reverend Revelant on topic 50 Scientist/Astronauts condemn NASA's AGW endorsement
BearMtnHIB wrote: I have also been involved in renewable energy research- don't get me wrong because I am a big supporter of renewable energy- especially solar energy.
And there are many applications where these technologies make economic sense. Where it works and makes for good economics- I support it big time.
There are also many places where it would be economical- but for various reasons the private market does not make the change- but that's a discussion for some other topic and time.
What I am not in favor of- and will never be in favor of- is government sticking it's big thumb into the equation by subsidizing this industry (or subsidizing any industry for that matter). No government subsidy is ever necessary to promote good economic sense- the free market will do it all on it's own.
It will spread like wildfire it becomes economically viable- and convenient for individuals and corporations to take advantage of it.
I'm also a big believer in technology and it's ability to solve problems- not so big a believer in government solutions to problems. We don't need to drive ourselves into a lower standard of living or drive up our cost of living with a government tax on carbon - keep the government out of these issues.
The government should only be interested in delivering the most economical energy to all Americans- by promoting policy that reduces regulations and taxes on energy producers- conventional or alternative.
Here is a great example of technology and how it can be used to solve problems- and it doesn't even need a government subsidy.
This is REAL science- not leftist-hokey pokey quasi-science.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/this-could-be-big-abc-news/more-mere-magic-mushrooms-154207424.html
That's been my position from square one. But that's not good enough for the left. Government subsidized renewables is just another way for the left to gain control of a whole industry, and control is job one in the leftist ideology. Same thing with health care, climate concerns... if you can't distribute the wealth through outright socialism, find other seculars religions and start a new crusade. Waiting for Armageddon since 33 AD
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12 Apr 2012 19:12 #23
by ScienceChic
"Blasted". Nice. They must be at war.
Oh, it's a climate "rebellion"
This one managed to work the word "fraud" in, even though the word fraud was never spoken in the letter, nor was any any fraud alluded to in the letter. Bonus points.
Now NASA's "rocked" by rebellion. Really? Gotten a rebuttal statement from them? Are the current employees fleeing in turmoil? Sounds like a coup to me, we'd better hunker down.
Yup, I was right, there's a revolt. At least they managed to correctly identify some engineers.
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/5 ... n-2579401/
"A stunning blow" - ooh, even better. Sounds like NASA can't recover from this one. Call the count. (Love how they stuttered too: wonder if they even know what AGW stands for?)
Extra bonus points! Not only is it rocked by rebellion, but they also managed to work in "extreme" too! Way to go boys!
This one got creative, love the "laughing stock" comment - they could tell public sentiment all from a letter that just got published?
notrickszone.com/2012/04/10/50-top-astro...o-a-laughing-stock/#
Finally, my very favorite from the Tea Party Nation website: they win hands-down. (It's the stupidity, it gets me every time. Oh, and the spell-checking of course)
Okay, that was fun, but all snarkiness aside, do you see my point? If these people want to publicly state they don't believe in the science and they think NASA is wrong, fine, more power to 'em. It's when their words are twisted and/or given more credibility than they deserve, that these random people who aren't bringing any new data to the table, just their opinions are held up as more than they really are, that I get annoyed. And the contrarians parrot it around the 'verse, and the non-thinkers buy into it without questioning what it really means just because it reinforces their already-held beliefs. So some astronauts and former other personnel condemn NASA for supporting AGW? Cool, fine, whatever. Doesn't change the data.
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
Replied by ScienceChic on topic 50 Scientist/Astronauts condemn NASA's AGW endorsement
PrintSmith wrote:
An engineering degree isn't a science degree? One who has a degree related to computers doesn't have a computer science degree? Physics isn't a science? Architecture isn't science? Are you sure about all of that SC?Science Chic wrote:
No, they are not. Did you even look up the signees, or are you just assuming that they are all scientists based on the inflammatory blog titles that are all over the internet on this? There are astronauts, program managers, electrical engineers, flight crew training & operations, a reentry specialist, a quality assurance manager, and several who aren't even identified. One meteorologist and one geologist that I could find.PrintSmith wrote: Interesting as well that they are all persons of science.
I did. You stated that they were ALL persons of science, which they were not. You deflected that by going into the few other types of science degrees some of them had, but certainly not ALL of them were scientists - and you would've known that had you not just swallowed the headline, hook, line and sinker but actually looked up the signees. Would you care to address your inaccurate statement first? I posted the list of signees, Google them. Many don't even come up except in context of this story. They have no more credibility than I in proclaiming the status of AGW one way or another, but at least I have the integrity to question results that support AGW before believing them, unlike many of you who just buy into the antithesis you already agree with.PrintSmith wrote: Want to address what I did say instead of attempt to ridicule something I didn't for a change of pace archer?
These people are well within their rights to give an opinion, it's the extremist, hysterical blog titles that take those "opinions" and give them more weight than they deserve that irks me. And no, I'm not going to "shut up" any more than you are - freedom of speech is a grand thing isn't it? - and I have just as much right as you to state my opinion. Let's take a look at some of those headlines, all based on the same letter submitted to NASA.This is the standard shibboleth that people like Science Chic trot out when they want everyone to believe unless you have the title "climate scientist" behind your name, then you are in no position to give any opinion about the state of AGW research, it's methodologies or it's possible flaws. In that case, I wish Science Chic would shut up and keep out of the debate, since she is a self claimed genetic lab technician which has poop to do with climate science.
And I don't need the title "scientist" behind my name to recognize hypocrisy.
"Blasted". Nice. They must be at war.
Oh, it's a climate "rebellion"
This one managed to work the word "fraud" in, even though the word fraud was never spoken in the letter, nor was any any fraud alluded to in the letter. Bonus points.
Now NASA's "rocked" by rebellion. Really? Gotten a rebuttal statement from them? Are the current employees fleeing in turmoil? Sounds like a coup to me, we'd better hunker down.
Yup, I was right, there's a revolt. At least they managed to correctly identify some engineers.
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/5 ... n-2579401/
"A stunning blow" - ooh, even better. Sounds like NASA can't recover from this one. Call the count. (Love how they stuttered too: wonder if they even know what AGW stands for?)
Extra bonus points! Not only is it rocked by rebellion, but they also managed to work in "extreme" too! Way to go boys!
This one got creative, love the "laughing stock" comment - they could tell public sentiment all from a letter that just got published?
notrickszone.com/2012/04/10/50-top-astro...o-a-laughing-stock/#
Finally, my very favorite from the Tea Party Nation website: they win hands-down. (It's the stupidity, it gets me every time. Oh, and the spell-checking of course)
Okay, that was fun, but all snarkiness aside, do you see my point? If these people want to publicly state they don't believe in the science and they think NASA is wrong, fine, more power to 'em. It's when their words are twisted and/or given more credibility than they deserve, that these random people who aren't bringing any new data to the table, just their opinions are held up as more than they really are, that I get annoyed. And the contrarians parrot it around the 'verse, and the non-thinkers buy into it without questioning what it really means just because it reinforces their already-held beliefs. So some astronauts and former other personnel condemn NASA for supporting AGW? Cool, fine, whatever. Doesn't change the data.
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
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