Too many topics

There are just too many redundant topics. That's it!

There, I just added another one. LOL

:rofl

Getting away from the partisan politics for the moment... I'm curious. What can the citizen "class" of this country do about the kleptocracy we have in Washington DC? I'm not asking politicians this question, I'm not asking public employees this question. Both of those "classes" have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. What about the rest of us? It is evident from the banter that goes on here at 285 Bound that we the people have had it with the leeches that make up our leaders, those that we have put into trust to run our country.

Be honest with yourself, they are not running this country for our sake anymore. They have managed to create one giant money trough which they feed at. And that trough is filled with our money, special interests money, money from millionaire and billionaire supporters... money, money, money. It's a cocktail of wrangle, jangle, contrive, borrow and steal and add a dose of egotism and power. It's not confined to one political party or another... it's one big party that we have not been invited to.

It needs to be shut down, one big clean sweep. But how do we do that? A third party can't gain any advantage over the entrenched power of the plutocracy. Third parties are blindsided at the community level by the tentacles of the system installed in county, city and state governments. Local politics is simply a training ground, a waiting room... the green room for the oligarchy heading for the big show in Washington. The whole system works through trickle-down corruption.

How do we fix this? Have you ever felt that the current situation with our politics can't be fixed with in the confines of our present rules and laws? Are we so top heavy that this system is going to collapse the in some way similar to the great empires of the past. Is this inevitable? Was any constitution or body of laws meant to rule over 300 million people?

I'm not offering answers, just putting out some questions. Personally I don't know what to do. But at times I feel it can't continue the way it is. Will only a major paradigm shift, a jolt heard round the world change things. Hopefully we can get some non-partisan ideas. Talk among yourselves.

Ok, I'll bite.... At leaste nibble


A movement HAS to start at a grass roots level (duh)... Initial involvement from both ideologies.

The message from the group must be post-partisan and cross conservative/liberal lines.
It will have to be based on common ground.... Yes there is more common ground than you think.
List of positions must be clear, wording of it must be to the point.
The movement must steer clear of existing idealogical ruts....
Accept that left/right will not agree on everything. But also accept all do love this country and those involved would not be if they didn't.


AVOID USING LABELS!

A start....

The Liberals GOP Twin wrote: Getting away from the partisan politics for the moment... I'm curious. What can the citizen "class" of this country do about the kleptocracy we have in Washington DC? I'm not asking politicians this question, I'm not asking public employees this question. Both of those "classes" have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. What about the rest of us? It is evident from the banter that goes on here at 285 Bound that we the people have had it with the leeches that make up our leaders, those that we have put into trust to run our country.

Be honest with yourself, they are not running this country for our sake anymore. They have managed to create one giant money trough which they feed at. And that trough is filled with our money, special interests money, money from millionaire and billionaire supporters... money, money, money. It's a cocktail of wrangle, jangle, contrive, borrow and steal and add a dose of egotism and power. It's not confined to one political party or another... it's one big party that we have not been invited to.

It needs to be shut down, one big clean sweep. But how do we do that? A third party can't gain any advantage over the entrenched power of the plutocracy. Third parties are blindsided at the community level by the tentacles of the system installed in county, city and state governments. Local politics is simply a training ground, a waiting room... the green room for the oligarchy heading for the big show in Washington. The whole system works through trickle-down corruption.

How do we fix this? Have you ever felt that the current situation with our politics can't be fixed with in the confines of our present rules and laws? Are we so top heavy that this system is going to collapse the in some way similar to the great empires of the past. Is this inevitable? Was any constitution or body of laws meant to rule over 300 million people?

I'm not offering answers, just putting out some questions. Personally I don't know what to do. But at times I feel it can't continue the way it is. Will only a major paradigm shift, a jolt heard round the world change things. Hopefully we can get some non-partisan ideas. Talk among yourselves.

It's all just a little bit of history repeating. :music:

United States Budget Dilemma

This video talks about the budget dilemma and recommends what can be done
It will be painful
1. Washington must admit the problem.
2. Explain problem to everyone.
3. We must face the pain of fixing.
Everyone must VOTE for representatives who will focus on FINANCIAL SOLVENCY
[youtube:23v10lu7][/youtube:23v10lu7]

The Liberals GOP Twin wrote: I'm not offering answers, just putting out some questions. Personally I don't know what to do. But at times I feel it can't continue the way it is. Will only a major paradigm shift, a jolt heard round the world change things. Hopefully we can get some non-partisan ideas. Talk among yourselves.

One change might have a chance at getting us out of the situation you describe, the manner in which the upper chambers of all the bicameral legislatures, at both the State and federal level, are chosen. Senators should be chosen by the level of government one below the one that they inhabit. The federal Senators should be chosen by the State Legislatures to represent them and the State Senators should be chosen by the county governments to represent them. That check and balance has been lost with Senators being directly elected by the citizens of the States in both instances. With both houses populated by majority vote of the people, what you have is a mammoth shift away from the small "r" republicanism that our form of government was created to be towards mob rule democracy.

Second thought would be to amend the Constitution such that the Governor's of the States could, by either simply majority or perhaps a 3/5 majority, repeal any federal law that was passed should the executives of the States feel that it is necessary to do so. Such an amendment would reinstitute the check and balance on the power that has been allowed to accumulate at the federal level that has essentially disappeared since the start of the last century. The same check and balance might be implemented with regards to the federal judiciary as well. A controversial decision by, as Obama referred to them, unelected judges at the Supreme Court, could be reviewed one last time by the Chief Justices of the States, to ensure that 5 justices are not able to substitute what the law is for what they would prefer the law to be - effectively exercising the power of the entire legislative and executive branches themselves.

netdude wrote: Ok, I'll bite.... At leaste nibble

A movement HAS to start at a grass roots level (duh)... Initial involvement from both ideologies.
The message from the group must be post-partisan and cross conservative/liberal lines.
It will have to be based on common ground.... Yes there is more common ground than you think.
List of positions must be clear, wording of it must be to the point.
The movement must steer clear of existing idealogical ruts....
Accept that left/right will not agree on everything. But also accept all do love this country and those involved would not be if they didn't.

AVOID USING LABELS!

A start....

akilina wrote: United States Budget Dilemma

This video talks about the budget dilemma and recommends what can be done
It will be painful
1. Washington must admit the problem.
2. Explain problem to everyone.
3. We must face the pain of fixing.
Everyone must VOTE for representatives who will focus on FINANCIAL SOLVENCY

popcorn eater wrote: It's all just a little bit of history repeating. :music:

All good answers. In my opinion though... Popcorn Eater comes closest to the most obvious, and unfortunately the most radical, even without going into details. I really think this problem is only going to be solved by finding a way to oust the whole bunch at once. Take your choice on how to do that.

PrintSmith wrote:

The Liberals GOP Twin wrote: I'm not offering answers, just putting out some questions. Personally I don't know what to do. But at times I feel it can't continue the way it is. Will only a major paradigm shift, a jolt heard round the world change things. Hopefully we can get some non-partisan ideas. Talk among yourselves.

One change might have a chance at getting us out of the situation you describe, the manner in which the upper chambers of all the bicameral legislatures, at both the State and federal level, are chosen. Senators should be chosen by the level of government one below the one that they inhabit. The federal Senators should be chosen by the State Legislatures to represent them and the State Senators should be chosen by the county governments to represent them. That check and balance has been lost with Senators being directly elected by the citizens of the States in both instances. With both houses populated by majority vote of the people, what you have is a mammoth shift away from the small "r" republicanism that our form of government was created to be towards mob rule democracy.

Second thought would be to amend the Constitution such that the Governor's of the States could, by either simply majority or perhaps a 3/5 majority, repeal any federal law that was passed should the executives of the States feel that it is necessary to do so. Such an amendment would reinstitute the check and balance on the power that has been allowed to accumulate at the federal level that has essentially disappeared since the start of the last century. The same check and balance might be implemented with regards to the federal judiciary as well. A controversial decision by, as Obama referred to them, unelected judges at the Supreme Court, could be reviewed one last time by the Chief Justices of the States, to ensure that 5 justices are not able to substitute what the law is for what they would prefer the law to be - effectively exercising the power of the entire legislative and executive branches themselves.

PrintSmith... they are all corrupt. The whole system is interlocked and suffers from trickle down corruption. They all have to go, at the same time, clean sweep. You figure out how that works.

I wouldn't argue that Twin - the problem is that when any one group gets that much power accumulated, it will corrupt anyone who enters into the arena. Put any group as pure as the winter's first snow in and within short order they, too, will be corrupted by the power they wield. You can't get rid of corruption any more than you can get rid of poverty - you can only hope to minimize the impact of the corruption by limiting the rewards associated with being corrupt. How long did it take the federal government to become corrupt after the Constitution was ratified? It wasn't even a decade. How about the French Government in the wake of their Revolution. How about the Soviet government in the wake of theirs? South Africa? Brazil? Mexico? Cuba? Saudi Arabia? Egypt? Israel? Name me one, just one, central government in the whole of human history that wasn't a corrupt one.

You can't eliminate corruption in government any more than you can eliminate poverty and suffering in the population. The best you can do is limit the harm that it can do, and the only way you can do that is to limit the access to power that any level of government has.

PrintSmith wrote: I wouldn't argue that Twin - the problem is that when any one group gets that much power accumulated, it will corrupt anyone who enters into the arena. Put any group as pure as the winter's first snow in and within short order they, too, will be corrupted by the power they wield. You can't get rid of corruption any more than you can get rid of poverty - you can only hope to minimize the impact of the corruption by limiting the rewards associated with being corrupt. How long did it take the federal government to become corrupt after the Constitution was ratified? It wasn't even a decade. How about the French Government in the wake of their Revolution. How about the Soviet government in the wake of theirs? South Africa? Brazil? Mexico? Cuba? Saudi Arabia? Egypt? Israel? Name me one, just one, central government in the whole of human history that wasn't a corrupt one.

You can't eliminate corruption in government any more than you can eliminate poverty and suffering in the population. The best you can do is limit the harm that it can do, and the only way you can do that is to limit the access to power that any level of government has.

Get your ass out of the past PrintSmith... it's not 1776, it's not 1810, it's not even the 1930's... and keep it on THIS continent. I'm talking about now. The best we can do it a clean sweep. Then we can adjust the way Washington works and put new and inventive limits to power. But right now it can't be fixed by voting in this "reformer" or that "reformer." Anyone put into a political office... from the left, right or some new third party... from local all the way up to the White House is up against a hydra that they either become part of or it will spit them out in pieces.

Washington is trying to pit "class" against "class" while the real class is the Political Class... the professional and careered corrupt power brokers who have stolen everything from us... the laws, the rules, the unity, our rights... we have become beholden to support their vile lifestyles and we exist as fuel for their insatiable appetites for money and power.

I firmly believe that the only lesson that history has for us at the present moment is examples of how this sort of problem has been fixed in the past. And that answer doesn't include voting them out.