Faith vs Science in Schools

17 Dec 2012 12:09 #21 by ScienceChic
Okay, no one answered my questions:
    Do you think we should teach history in math class?
    Do you think we should teach English in chemistry class?
    etc.

If the answer to these questions is no, then why should we teach religion in science class?

Conversely, would you be okay with teaching science in Sunday school/vacation Bible school?

This has nothing to do with "teach it all" and everything to do with what is appropriate and what is not. Religion does not belong in public school, and if you want it there, then it should be its own stand-alone class and that's another argument. The link I posted earlier perfectly sums up the dangers of teaching creationism in education - http://assembly.coe.int/main.asp?link=/ ... es1580.htm

2wLady, no, Creationism is not a hypothesis. It is not science, it is a religious idea.
Definition of creationism
Definition of intelligent design
Definition of evolution
Definition of scientific theory
Definition of scientific hypothesis

Evolution isn't just important for college - it is the basis for a basic understanding of the world around us. If you want to know why you have to get a new flu vaccine shot every year, then you need to understand evolution. If you want to comprehend why a species dies when the food source it normally consumes disappears, when there is a similar type food source is nearby and could be consumed but isn't (and that that has impacts on development/land management), you need to understand evolution. And if you think that evolution "fills its own holes of things they can't explain" then you have no in-depth knowledge of evolution or scientific method.

The beauty of science is that it is always evolving, so saying it's egocentric is misunderstanding it as well. New explanations of how things work are accepted all the time, and old ideas discarded when there is enough proof to demonstrate a credible reason to do so. Scientists are skeptical and will not accept new things until there's a tipping point of enough reliable data, or enough independent researchers who've done experiments to back up the new hypotheses and it's not just one or two people who have an agenda to prove "their idea" is right. Science is self-correcting this way, and if something comes along that better explains how our world has come to be than evolution, then evolution as a theory will be discarded. But, it has to be testable, repeatable data; claiming that a "creator" or :intelligent designer" just did it is not science - that's God and that's religion. Period. Science is for science class. Religion is not.

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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17 Dec 2012 12:19 #22 by CinnamonGirl
Replied by CinnamonGirl on topic Faith vs Science in Schools

Okay, no one answered my questions:
Do you think we should teach history in math class?
Do you think we should teach English in chemistry class?
etc.

If the answer to these questions is no, then why should we teach religion in science class?


You are assuming they are different things (based on your own perception). Look at my quote from Darwin.

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17 Dec 2012 12:23 #23 by LadyJazzer
Darwin's quote does not make creationism/I.D. "science." It is religion trying to pass itself off as science....And it doesn't belong in a classroom.

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17 Dec 2012 12:25 #24 by CinnamonGirl
Replied by CinnamonGirl on topic Faith vs Science in Schools
You are looking at this as two different things and that is the problem. Just from one perception. They can go together if you try to think creatively about it. Look into string theory. Seriously. It is fascinating. The evidence is fascinating as well.

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17 Dec 2012 12:34 #25 by LadyJazzer
It is religion trying to pass itself off as science....And it doesn't belong in a classroom.

This is not "a problem." Science is science... Creationism is not.

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17 Dec 2012 13:14 - 17 Dec 2012 13:17 #26 by archer
Replied by archer on topic Faith vs Science in Schools
I do think a comparative religion class should be taught in our schools.....children should be exposed to the different religions of the world, how they differ, what they teach, and how religions have evolved. Creationism would be a part of that education. But to put creationism into a science class is, like SC has pointed out, like teaching history in math class. It doesn't belong, and that would give it legitimacy as a science, which it is not. There are many religious beliefs out there, if you are going to teach the beliefs of one in public schools than you must teach the beliefs of them all....do you really think all that belongs in a science class CG? Or are you just lobbying for Christian beliefs to be included in the school curriculum and exclude all other religions?

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17 Dec 2012 13:16 #27 by Nobody that matters

archer wrote: I do think a comparative religion class should be taught in our schools.....children should be exposed to the different religions of the world, how they differ, what they teach, and how religions have evolved. Creationism would be a part of that education. But to put creationism into a science class is, like SC has pointed out, like teaching history in math class. It doesn't belong, and that would give out legitimacy as a science, which out odds not. There are many religious beliefs out there, of you are going to teach the beliefs of one on public schools than you must teach the beliefs of them all....do you really think all that belongs in a science class CG? Our are you just lobbying fort Christian beliefs be included on the school curriculum and exclude all other religions?


I agree. This puts subjects in the proper context and would result in better educated graduates. You can't truly understand others in the world until you understand something about their beliefs.

"Whatever you are, be a good one." ~ Abraham Lincoln

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17 Dec 2012 14:28 #28 by Grady
Replied by Grady on topic Faith vs Science in Schools

Science Chic wrote: Okay, no one answered my questions:

Do you think we should teach English in chemistry class?

Proper English, spelling and grammar should be required in all classes regardless of subject matter. But no creationism should not be taught in science class. I have to agree with Archer I see no problems with comparative religion classes at the secondary or college level.

To address LJ's list of websites attempting to disprove creationism, who cares. We all know the earth isn't 6000 years old or that man and dinosaur both walked the earth at the same time. My statement was can intelligent design be disproved. ID theory can coexist in perfect harmony with evolution. Maybe part of the issue is my understanding of ID is vastly different than some others. I don't see creationism and ID as being equal.

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17 Dec 2012 14:32 #29 by LadyJazzer
It can, and HAS been disproved. The fact that you don't like the articles doesn't make them any less true...Any more than Mitt-Flop's lies about many things in the campaign made them true.

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17 Dec 2012 14:47 #30 by Grady
Replied by Grady on topic Faith vs Science in Schools

LadyJazzer wrote: It can, and HAS been disproved.

So they say...

I still haven't seen the proof that ID can be dis-proved or for that matter proved.

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