Faith vs Science in Schools

CinnamonGirl wrote: My point is that is your perception. There are millions of people who disagree. So, who wins?

Millions?

Part of the answer is we have to stop pushing our views on others. Really, the more we do the more hypocritical we all are. Compromise and compassion come from acceptance that our views are only right for ourselves. We all have different paths that brought us here. And looking into others with curiosity rather than trying to change their views is a start. IMO.

And why do you assume that by stating my opinion that I am "pushing" my views on others. By expressing your view that you believe evolution and intelligent design should be taught together, does that mean that you are pushing your view on others?

In my view, if you put the two together you can learn more than taking away teaching intelligent design along with evolution. IN my mind they can go together. If you knew me and my thoughts on God and the universe you may understand where I am going with this. Really, string theory is part of that. One interesting fact that has some searching string theory is that if it is proven it could explain some parts of some religions scientifically.

Did you not read a single thing I posted? Intelligent design's stated goal is to re-establish fundamentalist religious views in all areas of science, starting by attacking evolution - they are waging war on science and you want to let them in the classroom????? Don't believe me? Read their own words - http://www.scribd.com/doc/20872000/The- ... e-Document
If you want a cleaner pdf version, go here: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006 ... the-wedge/

Another book that is fascinating is the book "Embraced by the Light". My view of the universe, God has nothing to do with religion. But it does have to do with Evolution and Intelligent design together. SC, you are asking me the wrong questions. I can't answer them in this context, because that is not my point.

God may not have anything to do with religion to you, but it does to these people and they have an agenda to make you believe it to.

What exactly does God have to do with evolution?

Asking the wrong questions...you're doing a fantastic job of avoiding them. You try to use a Darwin quote to prove your point that religion and science should be taught together because even the Father of Evolution supposedly believed it, then when I point out the rest of the quote that refutes that, you try to twist this back on it being "my opinion". You started off the thread by saying those of us on this board made fun of creationists, and when asked to provide evidence, you tried to backtrack by saying you really meant some unspecified, amorphous "group" - you who have complained about other members painting groups with broad-brush, generalized statements did that exact thing to us who say creationism and intelligent design shouldn't be taught in science class.

CinnamonGirl wrote: Really, the problem is fear. What are you afraid of if intelligent design is taught with evolution? It would solve the problem of people fighting the teaching evolution in science class.

Fear?? Do you know why they're fighting the teaching of evolution? Their attempts to destroy science are pitiful and transparent, which is why they've lost over and over again in courts of law. Every other person who's posted on this thread has even agreed that if it's to be taught, it should be in its own separate religious class, not in science classes - why are you stubbornly clinging to having to teach them together or not teaching them at all - that's what they want, that's their proven agenda, so it comes down to what's right and what's wrong, and what's legal. It's illegal to teach religion in public school, period. It's not fear, it's about what's appropriate: you don't teach history in math class, you don't teach underwater basket weaving in Biology 101, and you don't teach a concept created by people who have blatantly stated that they are trying to destroy science in a science class. It's a fact as admitted by the Discovery Institute themselves, not "perception". Would you be okay with teaching atheism in Sunday school? That Hitler was a hero, and concentration camps were fictitious stories made up by the media, at a Jewish synagogue?

[quoteemchickaree:1ectw0ce]Teaching science is teaching what has happened. Teaching ID would be teaching why. I have my view, my atheist relatives would have another, my fundamentalist minister uncle yet another. I'm sure Cinnamon Girls is different yet. Even among us who believe intelligent design I don't find any consistency. What would be taught?[/quoteem:1ectw0ce]Exactly, it would open a huge can of worms - and then you'd have to start teaching Buddhist, Islamic, etc views and it wouldn't be about the facts anymore, but about people's beliefs. Science isn't about beliefs, and most importantly doesn't seek to answer why, ever. It's about what is observable, measureable, and testable and coming up with rational explanations of how it all works that fit with what's observed- none of which falls into the realm of religion. Religion is subjective, science is objective; you cannot use one to explain the other (beyond opinion), and you cannot use either to justify evidence for, or condemnation of, the other. They complement vastly different needs in our lives but that doesn't mean they should be thrown together, especially when the founders of creationism and intelligent design have stated that their goal is to completely undermine the teaching of science - that's like asking our enemies to come brainwash our kids that our way of life in the U.S. is wrong.

That's messed up if you think that's okay.

[quoteemNobody that matters:1ectw0ce]Well obviously, if anything were to be taught it would be what I believe... cuz I'm right.[/quoteem:1ectw0ce]LOL Prove it!

:rofllol
My imagination sucks - why aren't you guys looking like Chris Pine, Robert Downey Jr, and Bradley Cooper and doing chores dressed only in blue jeans in my house!

edit to add: sado-masochism problem confirmed... :faint: tongue: