Civil Unions Approved In Colorado Denver Post

27 Jan 2013 16:47 #21 by LadyJazzer

chickaree wrote: You deserve those rights MsMam, and I am ashamed that my party works against you. I'm sorry.


I'm ashamed of your party too... And not just for MsMAM's rights...

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27 Jan 2013 17:16 #22 by chickaree

LadyJazzer wrote:

chickaree wrote: You deserve those rights MsMam, and I am ashamed that my party works against you. I'm sorry.


I'm ashamed of your party too... And not just for MsMAM's rights...

:dislike:
What about your party? Are you proud of their record on this issue? If so, you are easily satisfied.

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27 Jan 2013 17:37 #23 by LadyJazzer

chickaree wrote:

LadyJazzer wrote:

chickaree wrote: You deserve those rights MsMam, and I am ashamed that my party works against you. I'm sorry.


I'm ashamed of your party too... And not just for MsMAM's rights...

:dislike:
What about your party? Are you proud of their record on this issue? If so, you are easily satisfied.


I'll see your :dislike:

And raise you: :dislike: :dislike:

I feel better already...

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27 Jan 2013 17:44 #24 by FredHayek
The Dems were pretty late to civil unions too.

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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27 Jan 2013 17:47 #25 by chickaree

LadyJazzer wrote:

chickaree wrote:

LadyJazzer wrote:

chickaree wrote: You deserve those rights MsMam, and I am ashamed that my party works against you. I'm sorry.


I'm ashamed of your party too... And not just for MsMAM's rights...

:dislike:
What about your party? Are you proud of their record on this issue? If so, you are easily satisfied.


I'll see your :dislike:

And raise you: :dislike: :dislike:

I feel better already...

You seem unwilling to have a discussion on this LadyJazzer. That is unfortunate. I'll take that to mean that you are satisfied with your party's position on this, that civil unions are good enough and that the title of married remains exclusive to heterosexual couples. I think that we are all entitled to marry our SOs. This conservative is ahead of you on this it would appear.

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27 Jan 2013 18:05 - 27 Jan 2013 19:09 #26 by LadyJazzer
My party's POSITION, (as stated in MY PARTY's party-platform) is that marriage-equality should be the law of the land. I'm not only okay with that, I'm proud of it. You're not "ahead of me" on that issue, or any other issue. (What did YOUR party's platform say about the issues? HINT: See below...) Have we been able to accomplish it in every state of the union? No...No more than we were able to accomplish a lot more things that the teabagger's prevented. Am I proud of my party's record? I'm a damned-sight more proud of my party's record than yours.

Which party is behind the unconstitutionality of the DOMA case now pending before the Supreme Court? (HINT: It's not yours...YOURS is spending $5 million of the taxpayer's money to try to defend this unconstitutional law.) Which party is behind the unconstitutionality of the California Prop-8 case now pending before the Supreme Court? (HINT: It's not yours...YOURS is spending money under the table with NOM to try to defend this unconstitutional law.) You DAMNED RIGHT I'm for Marriage Equality...and how many times do I have to say it on this forum before it sinks in?

Which party brought LGBT service personnel to their convention stage to take credit for the repeal of Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell? (HINT: It's not yours... Yours is still fighting it tooth-and-nail in the Congress.)

Which party elected the first Woman GAY Senator to the U.S. Senate? (HINT: It's not yours...) Which party has openly-gay house members who ran as openly-gay? (HINT: It's not yours...Oh, there were a few Republicans that came out after they were elected... But how many have run as gay and won?)

Unwilling to have a discussion? Hardly. I'm unwilling to sit and listen to 4 pages of deflection and b.s and "They did it too" nonsense.

And if you'd actually READ my original response you'd have noticed that what I was saying is that I'm ashamed of your party for a lot more than just LGBT rights...I'm ashamed of it for:

* Women's Rights (including Freedom-of-choice rights; violence-against-women rights, freedom to obtain birth-control under insurance coverage rights, freedom to get low-cost women's health screenings for cancer at clinics like Planned-Parenthood, rape-survivor rights, rape-prevention rights, and the list goes on....)

* Black rights

* Hispanic, and immigrant rights

* Seniors & Disabled rights

* VA & Veteran's rights

* Labor rights

* Oh, and LBGT rights....

You know, all of those constituencies that VOTED AGAINST the GOTP in the last election by HUGE MARGINS... (But hey, it still looks like you've got the market cornered on old-angry-white-guys...)


Edited to add:

By the way here is YOUR PARTY'S STANCE ON THESE ISSUES...Straight out of their Platform document:

Constitutionally define marriage as one man & one woman
Congressional Republicans took the lead in enacting the Defense of Marriage Act, affirming the right of States and the federal government not to recognize same-sex relationships licensed in other jurisdictions. The current Administration's open defiance of this constitutional principle--in its handling of immigration cases, in federal personnel benefits, in allowing a same-sex marriage at a military base, and in refusing to defend DOMA in the courts--makes a mockery of the President's inaugural oath. We commend the United States House of Representatives and State Attorneys General who have defended these laws when they have been attacked in the courts. We reaffirm our support for a Constitutional amendment defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman. We applaud the citizens of the majority of States which have enshrined in their constitutions the traditional concept of marriage, and we support the campaigns underway in several other States to do so.

Homosexuality is incompatible with military service
We affirm traditional military culture, and we affirm that homosexuality is incompatible with military service.

States should not recognize gay marriage from other states
After more than two centuries of American jurisprudence, and millennia of human experience, a few judges and local authorities are presuming to change the most fundamental institution of civilization, the union of a man and a woman in marriage. Attempts to redefine marriage in a single state or city could have serious consequences throughout the country, and anything less than a Constitutional amendment, passed by the Congress and ratified by the states, is vulnerable to being overturned by activist judges. On a matter of such importance, the voice of the people must be heard. The Constitutional amendment process guarantees that the final decision will rest with the American people and their elected representatives. President Bush will also vigorously defend the Defense of Marriage Act, which was supported by both parties and passed by 85 votes in the Senate. This common sense law reaffirms the right of states not to recognize same-sex marriages licensed in other states.

Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage
We strongly support a Constitutional amendment that fully protects marriage, and we [oppose] forcing states to recognize other living arrangements as equivalent to marriage. The well-being of children is best accomplished [when] nurtured by their mother & father anchored by the bonds of marriage. We believe that legal recognition and the accompanying benefits afforded couples should be preserved for that unique and special union of one man and one woman which has historically been called marriage.

Women exempt from combat; “candid analysis” of military gays
We support the advancement of women in the military, support their exemption from ground combat units, and call for co-ed basic training to be ended. We support restoration of sound priorities in the making of personnel policies, and candid analysis of the consequences of unprecedented social changes in the military. We will put renewed emphasis on encouraging the best and brightest of our young people to join our armed forces.


Yeah... I'm ashamed of your party. I'm disgusted by your party. I've got nothing but contempt for your party.....

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27 Jan 2013 18:27 #27 by chickaree
Your party talks a good show, but when it comes time to risk some political capital, the left leaves its' supporters swinging in the wind. You are very quick to criticize the right, but whatever your side does is AOK with you. Just like the righties you love to criticize, you seem less concerned about the actual issues and more concerned with "winning". Unfortunately, for you, winning is more about a "Your Momma" exchange than about ideas. You're capable of more than that.

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27 Jan 2013 18:28 #28 by LadyJazzer
Thank you for that deflection non-answer answer... Just what I expected... And I don't think you are capable of more than that.

I don't have to "try to win"...I've already "won" by virtue of the fact that MY PARTY has done something about ALL these rights, and continues to try to do more; and yours has done nothing about them, and in fact, spends a huge amount of political and financial capital trying to defeat them, block them, de-fund them, and prevent them in any way possible.

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27 Jan 2013 19:13 #29 by chickaree
No. You haven't "won" anything. Marriage rights are at the whim of government rather than enshrined in the Constitution for all. I haven't seen President Obama pushing for an equal rights amendment. You are satisfied that he dropped his support for the DOMA. You elected him even when he stated his willingness that the LGBT community be denied full rights. At least I work for the betterment of my party. You are satisfied with yours, warts and all. Until we are all willing to demand more, we will get less and less every year.

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27 Jan 2013 19:24 - 27 Jan 2013 20:26 #30 by LadyJazzer

chickaree wrote: No. You haven't "won" anything. Marriage rights are at the whim of government rather than enshrined in the Constitution for all. I haven't seen President Obama pushing for an equal rights amendment. You are satisfied that he dropped his support for the DOMA. You elected him even when he stated his willingness that the LGBT community be denied full rights. At least I work for the betterment of my party. You are satisfied with yours, warts and all. Until we are all willing to demand more, we will get less and less every year.


Here's MY PARTY's platform document:

The President’s record, from ending “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” in full cooperation with our military leadership, to passing the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, to ensuring same-sex couples can visit each other in the hospital, reflects Democrats’ belief that all Americans deserve the same chance to pursue happiness, earn a living, be safe in their communities, serve their country, and take care of the ones they love. The Administration has said that the word ‘family’ in immigration includes LGBT relationships in order to protect bi-national families threatened with deportation.

Freedom to Marry. We support the right of all families to have equal respect, responsibilities, and protections under the law. We support marriage equality and support the movement to secure equal treatment under law for same-sex couples. We also support the freedom of churches and religious entities to decide how to administer marriage as a religious sacrament without government interference.

We oppose discriminatory federal and state constitutional amendments and other attempts to deny equal protection of the laws to committed same-sex couples who seek the same respect and responsibilities as other married couples. We support the full repeal of the so-called Defense of Marriage Act and the passage of the Respect for Marriage Act.


I've already posted yours... (Which you conveniently choose to ignore...) I'll be glad to copy-and-paste it and post it again, in case you missed it. You remind me of the old Groucho Marx line about, "Who are you going to believe? Me? or your own lying eyes?"

Democratic money is helping to pay for the two cases in front of the Supreme Court; (which, if both go against the GOP, could likely lead to the same kind of result as "Virginia v. Loving", which made it unconstitutional to deny interracial marriage. You could very likely see marriage-equality at the Constitutional level in our lifetimes... (HINT: It's NOT YOUR PARTY... Your party is fighting it every step of the way.) I'm not just satisfied that Obama dropped support for DOMA...He's fighting it, and it was in OUR PARTY'S PLATFORM DOCUMENT... Where was it in yours?

I'm not only willing to demand more of my party, but I actively work towards it. And all your party does is continue to work toward hatred, bigotry and discrimination at every level, and at full-throttle... Please, spare me your fantasy-world of GOTP "acceptance." That's right up there with "I like to fire people."


I also find it fascinating that one page back you said:

chickaree wrote: You deserve those rights MsMam, and I am ashamed that my party works against you. I'm sorry.



And then I said:

LadyJazzer wrote: I'm ashamed of your party too... And not just for MsMAM's rights...



And now, you've gone almost two pages giving me this "Oh, yeah? Well, i]your party wears combat-boots and yo' momma dresses you funny[/i ... Your party didn't do _X_, _Y_, _Z_"...

So, were you being a hypocrite when you apologized to MsMam and said you were "ashamed" for your party's behavior? Or are you being a hypocrite now because I agreed with you?

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