DHS Staying Quiet on Munitions Purchases

More on this idiot issue....hollowpoints ARE not permitted by the Geneva convention....thay are slaughter rounds......why would our civilian institutions need such slaughter rounds ??

AND now the agencies do want to dissarm Americans.......wake up.

That raises the question as to why NOAA would be using such an expensive and deadly round for training purposes. Hollow point bullets are actually outlawed during time of war by the Geneva Convention.


“NOAA officers and agents enforce the nation’s ocean and fishing laws to ensure a level playing field for fishermen and to protect marine species like whales, dolphins and turtles,” Bales-Sherrod said.

Hollow-point bullets, which are designed to expand when they strike their target, are standard issue for many law enforcement agencies, including the 63 NOAA law enforcement personnel that will use the rounds for their firearms qualifications and training, according to Bales-Sherrod.

Later, more questions were raised when the Social Security Administration announced their plans to purchase 174,000 rounds of the deadly ammunition. The administration has been attempting to tamp down any concerns about the purchases; however, they still seem to be less than cooperative when it comes to answering questions from the media.


Prior to the blog being posted, CNSNews.com had asked the agency specific questions about its ammunition order. Although some of those questions were addressed by the information provided in the blog, the agency did not say why it needed 174,000 bullets and if that quantity was customary or had increased from previous orders.

The Social Security Administration also stated that the expensive and deadly rounds were primarily for training purposes and are standard issue, routinely carried by agents. Ihat's increasingly clear is that the military is no long the nation's only standing army when it comes to killing power. It also remains unclear why federal agencies use such expensive and deadly ammunition for training purposes.

Like I said, idiots.

Per the SSA:
With those goals in mind, we thought it would be appropriate to address recent media reports regarding the organization’s purchase of ammunition for our special agents’ duty weapons. We should first state that the OIG follows all Federal procurement rules when arranging these purchases.

As we said in a recent post, our office has criminal investigators, or special agents, who are responsible for investigating violations of the laws that govern SSA’s programs. Currently, about 295 special agents and supervisory special agents work in 66 offices across the United States. These investigators have full law enforcement authority, including executing search warrants and making arrests.

Our investigators are similar to your State or local police officers. They use traditional investigative techniques, and they are armed when on official duty.

Media reports expressed concerns over the type of ammunition ordered. In fact, this type of ammunition is standard issue for many law enforcement agencies. OIG’s special agents use this ammunition during their mandatory quarterly firearms qualifications and other training sessions, to ensure agent and public safety. Additionally, the ammunition our agents use is the same type used at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center.

Our special agents need to be armed and trained appropriately. They not only investigate allegations of Social Security fraud, but they also are called to respond to threats against Social Security offices, employees, and customers.
http://oig.ssa.gov/newsroom/blog/2012/0 ... rocurement

It seems as though you are advocating the banning of hollow point ammunition since they are only useful for "slaughter".

FYI, the US government may not use drones to kill Americans on American soil except in the instance of where that individual is engaged in active combat against this country. Are you claiming that such individuals should not be targeted, but allowed to go free to murder innocent American lives?

Something the Dog Said wrote:
....It seems as though you are advocating the banning of hollow point ammunition since they are only useful for "slaughter".

FYI, the US government may not use drones to kill Americans on American soil except in the instance of where that individual is engaged in active combat against this country. Are you claiming that such individuals should not be targeted, but allowed to go free to murder innocent American lives?

No, I'm telling you that they're giving the information with the false pretense that the hollow point ammunition is for training. The fact that they carry it doesn't bother me, it's the ammount they say they need. Why don't we hear about major shootouts going on serving these so called warrants and arrests? "Well, they don't have to shoot most of the time" compounds my accusations. The ammount divied up for training and regular carry is WAY over the top, to the point of startling not just me, but a lot of others, and not just conspiracy theorists. This also doesn't address the seven thousand some odd select fire assault weapons and thousands of MRAPS. I'm flat out saying they're preparing for some serious unrest, but I'm not gonna stop what I'm doing and dig a bunker either Dog, but to dismiss this kind of sh** going on would be stupid. "Ulterior motives" bud.
As far as the drones, there you go again believing everything they feed you. Hypothetically speaking, if they deem your compound, stockpile of different weapons and thousands upon thousands of rounds of ammunition, what religion you follow and what your community thinks about you to be a terroristic threat, you bet yer sweet patootie they'll send a Predator in there and wipe you off the map, and there won't be one single media outlet that will report it, just rumors and an explanation that there was a major gas leak in the house. We'll just call all this my opinion, but enough has happened covertly over the last fifty years for me to be a little nervous.

Expensive hollowpoints versus cheap FMJ for training purposes? It is simply more wasteful spending. Last time I went to an indoor range they asked to see what ammo I was shooting. I showed them both fmj and Hp loads and they asked why are you going to practice with the Hp. I wasn't. I just use them for carry. My expensive hollowpoint loads about 3x the price seldom are shot. The Feds? They don't have those pesky budgetary concerns. More spending is more stimulus right?

FredHayek wrote: Expensive hollowpoints versus cheap FMJ for training purposes? It is simply more wasteful spending. Last time I went to an indoor range they asked to see what ammo I was shooting. I showed them both fmj and Hp loads and they asked why are you going to practice with the Hp. I wasn't. I just use them for carry. My expensive hollowpoint loads about 3x the price seldom are shot. The Feds? They don't have those pesky budgetary concerns. More spending is more stimulus right?

As far as training goes, yes, it would make sense that they have no discretion on spending, and yes, using hollow points on criminals would reduce the risk of "pass through," which would endanger innocent bystanders. That's saying that they get into shootouts with people all the time, again, fine, could happen all the time, and with my premise, the media doesn't report THAT kind of thing either.
On the other two things, I'll just throw my hands up and say, sure, they need select fire (meaning semi-auto and auto select) assault weapons too, and have the modified MRAPS (more gun ports for shooting out of) to also serve warrants and make arrests. What am I thinking.

Select fire weapons? Crazy in my eyes. Deployed veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan claim to almost never use fully automatic unless it is a mounted belt fed weapon.

FredHayek wrote: Select fire weapons? Crazy in my eyes. Deployed veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan claim to almost never use fully automatic unless it is a mounted belt fed weapon.

Better to find your target and put a three round burst on it than spray and pray, when I fire at something/one I fully intend to hit it where I am aiming. Why would DHS have a need for full auto weapons? Because they can ask for them or because there is some anticipation that DHS is going to set up defensive fields of fire around a fixed position and mow down crowds of people attempting to overtake their position?

Even when covering fire is required to allow team members to move around in Indian Country, aim for the bad guys and let them have it but do so in measured amounts. When team mates are firing use the opportunity to reload and return the favor to your team mates. Force multiplication can be as simple as maintaining good fire discipline (hit what you aim at with a minimal number of rounds) and a team of as few as three laying down consistent, accurate fire on the enemy.

The business of pointing a full auto weapon in the general direction of the bad guys and letting it rip can be dangerous, bad guys who can move away will reposition themselves and open fire from new positions or simply run away and return to fight on another day. A continuous full auto burst let's everyone know where you are, bad guys knowing where you are can be severely limiting to your combat life expectancy.

But I digress, DHS's mission is supposed to be defending the citizens of the United States of America, not turning the nation into a police state. Are the weapons and ammo that DHS has recently acquired to be used to defend us or beat us into submission?

otisptoadwater wrote:

FredHayek wrote: Select fire weapons? Crazy in my eyes. Deployed veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan claim to almost never use fully automatic unless it is a mounted belt fed weapon.

.......But I digress, DHS's mission is supposed to be defending the citizens of the United States of America, not turning the nation into a police state. Are the weapons and ammo that DHS has recently acquired to be used to defend us or beat us into submission?

Fred, automatics can be fed from regular magazines. Product of the present and future of firearms.

And Otis, that is why I'm nervous.

Irony? DHS feels the need for full auto when they will be shooting around innocent civvies. Islamic warriors are very fond of spray & pray saying Allah will guide the bullets to the target. Why aim?