Judge gives first victory to stopping FORCED healthcare

Something the Dog Said wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Joe wrote: Colorado related:

http://www.thedenverdailynews.com/article.php?aID=9447

"The Health Care Choice for Colorado initiative asks voters to exempt Colorado from recent federal health care reform, including a provision requiring citizens and business owners to buy health insurance or pay a penalty. Caldara says the initiative would also prevent the government from forcing people into a public or private health care plan against their will."

The only problem with this battle by the states is its going to drag out and nothing positive will get done in the meantime. I wonder how Colorado will vote?

I cannot wait to vote on this! I think it will pass by 60%. Colorado does not want to be forced to violate the Constitution where it says that you cannot be forced by the Federal Government to pay for goods or services. I think it will be an epensive add campain both for and against it.

Perhaps you could share with us where in the Constitution does it say "that you cannot be forced by the Federal Government to pay for goods or services"? I have read the Constitution many times and can not recollect that particular provision.

The Commerce Clause in the Constitution. You can read it like you want but no where does it give permission to FORCE people o purchase goods or services. They are over stepping their rights as defined byt the US Constitution. It is a total power grab.

http://www.senate.gov/civics/constituti ... tution.htm

No where does it prohibit the Federal government from offering a tax break to those who choose to purchase insurance. Further, it does grant the Federal government the power to regulate interstate commerce. Certainly the Federal government has the power to regulate items that are in commerce, vis a vis automobiles, food, drugs, etc. The only question is whether or not the Federal government has the power to regulate economic inactivity. As I earlier pointed out, clearly the Founding Fathers considered that the federal government had the power to require its citizens to provide specific items, such as in the Military Conscription Act of 1792 where all able bodied white men between the ages of 18 and 45 were required to provide specific items for service in the military. Thus, clearly the federal government can provide a tax break for those who choose to purchase qualified insurance. The government can already impose taxes on its citizens, so all they are currently doing is providing a tax break.

You never read much of th bill did you? It says that it can automatically tax money out of your taxes if you do not buy insurance. It also says it will fine businesses who do not provide it to their employees whether they can afford it or not. And if they don't pay the fine, it will be impossed on theri taxes. This has nothing to do with tax breaks. It has to do with imporsing new taxes and fines on you if you don't pay for their insurance whether you can afford it or not and that is unconstitutional.

The Viking wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Joe wrote: Colorado related:

http://www.thedenverdailynews.com/article.php?aID=9447

"The Health Care Choice for Colorado initiative asks voters to exempt Colorado from recent federal health care reform, including a provision requiring citizens and business owners to buy health insurance or pay a penalty. Caldara says the initiative would also prevent the government from forcing people into a public or private health care plan against their will."

The only problem with this battle by the states is its going to drag out and nothing positive will get done in the meantime. I wonder how Colorado will vote?

I cannot wait to vote on this! I think it will pass by 60%. Colorado does not want to be forced to violate the Constitution where it says that you cannot be forced by the Federal Government to pay for goods or services. I think it will be an epensive add campain both for and against it.

Perhaps you could share with us where in the Constitution does it say "that you cannot be forced by the Federal Government to pay for goods or services"? I have read the Constitution many times and can not recollect that particular provision.

The Commerce Clause in the Constitution. You can read it like you want but no where does it give permission to FORCE people o purchase goods or services. They are over stepping their rights as defined byt the US Constitution. It is a total power grab.

http://www.senate.gov/civics/constituti ... tution.htm

No where does it prohibit the Federal government from offering a tax break to those who choose to purchase insurance. Further, it does grant the Federal government the power to regulate interstate commerce. Certainly the Federal government has the power to regulate items that are in commerce, vis a vis automobiles, food, drugs, etc. The only question is whether or not the Federal government has the power to regulate economic inactivity. As I earlier pointed out, clearly the Founding Fathers considered that the federal government had the power to require its citizens to provide specific items, such as in the Military Conscription Act of 1792 where all able bodied white men between the ages of 18 and 45 were required to provide specific items for service in the military. Thus, clearly the federal government can provide a tax break for those who choose to purchase qualified insurance. The government can already impose taxes on its citizens, so all they are currently doing is providing a tax break.

You never read much of th bill did you? It says that it can automatically tax money out of your taxes if you do not buy insurance. It also says it will fine businesses who do not provide it to their employees whether they can afford it or not. And if they don't pay the fine, it will be impossed on theri taxes. This has nothing to do with tax breaks. It has to do with imporsing new taxes and fines on you if you don't pay for their insurance whether you can afford it or not and that is unconstitutional.

You were claiming that the individual mandate portion of the health care reform legislation was unconstitutional. Clearly it is within the power of Congress to impose taxes both on individuals and on businesses if it so chooses. There is absolutely no question about the constitutional authority for Congress to do so. In this instance, Congress has chosen to increase income taxes on all, with tax credits for those who are below a certain income level or those who choose to purchase qualified health insurance. Are you saying that tax credits are a bad thing?

Something the Dog Said wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Joe wrote: Colorado related:

http://www.thedenverdailynews.com/article.php?aID=9447

"The Health Care Choice for Colorado initiative asks voters to exempt Colorado from recent federal health care reform, including a provision requiring citizens and business owners to buy health insurance or pay a penalty. Caldara says the initiative would also prevent the government from forcing people into a public or private health care plan against their will."

The only problem with this battle by the states is its going to drag out and nothing positive will get done in the meantime. I wonder how Colorado will vote?

I cannot wait to vote on this! I think it will pass by 60%. Colorado does not want to be forced to violate the Constitution where it says that you cannot be forced by the Federal Government to pay for goods or services. I think it will be an epensive add campain both for and against it.

Perhaps you could share with us where in the Constitution does it say "that you cannot be forced by the Federal Government to pay for goods or services"? I have read the Constitution many times and can not recollect that particular provision.

The Commerce Clause in the Constitution. You can read it like you want but no where does it give permission to FORCE people o purchase goods or services. They are over stepping their rights as defined byt the US Constitution. It is a total power grab.

http://www.senate.gov/civics/constituti ... tution.htm

No where does it prohibit the Federal government from offering a tax break to those who choose to purchase insurance. Further, it does grant the Federal government the power to regulate interstate commerce. Certainly the Federal government has the power to regulate items that are in commerce, vis a vis automobiles, food, drugs, etc. The only question is whether or not the Federal government has the power to regulate economic inactivity. As I earlier pointed out, clearly the Founding Fathers considered that the federal government had the power to require its citizens to provide specific items, such as in the Military Conscription Act of 1792 where all able bodied white men between the ages of 18 and 45 were required to provide specific items for service in the military. Thus, clearly the federal government can provide a tax break for those who choose to purchase qualified insurance. The government can already impose taxes on its citizens, so all they are currently doing is providing a tax break.

You never read much of th bill did you? It says that it can automatically tax money out of your taxes if you do not buy insurance. It also says it will fine businesses who do not provide it to their employees whether they can afford it or not. And if they don't pay the fine, it will be impossed on theri taxes. This has nothing to do with tax breaks. It has to do with imporsing new taxes and fines on you if you don't pay for their insurance whether you can afford it or not and that is unconstitutional.

You were claiming that the individual mandate portion of the health care reform legislation was unconstitutional. Clearly it is within the power of Congress to impose taxes both on individuals and on businesses if it so chooses. There is absolutely no question about the constitutional authority for Congress to do so. In this instance, Congress has chosen to increase income taxes on all, with tax credits for those who are below a certain income level or those who choose to purchase qualified health insurance. Are you saying that tax credits are a bad thing?

Nice try at a spin! This is a tax increase and a new tax forced on you just for deciding NOT to buy something. You are not going to make this look like it is a good thing for anyone. It is not a tax credit. Rates will go up and waits will be so much longer and all for something that the majority of Americans don't want and don't want to pay for. SO they are forcing us by taking it out of our taxes.

I will never understand those people who want to live in a country where the government controls everything. There are many other countries where you can live and hve everything that you are pushing for.

So as payback, if states fight a bill approved by our(?) politicians who
Represent(?)us. Say OK states, people. Health care is 100% FREE(tax$)

Imagine the spending frenzy. Quite common nowdays for politicians
to punish the taxpayers using our own money against us.

The Viking wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Joe wrote: Colorado related:

http://www.thedenverdailynews.com/article.php?aID=9447

"The Health Care Choice for Colorado initiative asks voters to exempt Colorado from recent federal health care reform, including a provision requiring citizens and business owners to buy health insurance or pay a penalty. Caldara says the initiative would also prevent the government from forcing people into a public or private health care plan against their will."

The only problem with this battle by the states is its going to drag out and nothing positive will get done in the meantime. I wonder how Colorado will vote?

I cannot wait to vote on this! I think it will pass by 60%. Colorado does not want to be forced to violate the Constitution where it says that you cannot be forced by the Federal Government to pay for goods or services. I think it will be an epensive add campain both for and against it.

Perhaps you could share with us where in the Constitution does it say "that you cannot be forced by the Federal Government to pay for goods or services"? I have read the Constitution many times and can not recollect that particular provision.

The Commerce Clause in the Constitution. You can read it like you want but no where does it give permission to FORCE people o purchase goods or services. They are over stepping their rights as defined byt the US Constitution. It is a total power grab.

http://www.senate.gov/civics/constituti ... tution.htm

No where does it prohibit the Federal government from offering a tax break to those who choose to purchase insurance. Further, it does grant the Federal government the power to regulate interstate commerce. Certainly the Federal government has the power to regulate items that are in commerce, vis a vis automobiles, food, drugs, etc. The only question is whether or not the Federal government has the power to regulate economic inactivity. As I earlier pointed out, clearly the Founding Fathers considered that the federal government had the power to require its citizens to provide specific items, such as in the Military Conscription Act of 1792 where all able bodied white men between the ages of 18 and 45 were required to provide specific items for service in the military. Thus, clearly the federal government can provide a tax break for those who choose to purchase qualified insurance. The government can already impose taxes on its citizens, so all they are currently doing is providing a tax break.

You never read much of th bill did you? It says that it can automatically tax money out of your taxes if you do not buy insurance. It also says it will fine businesses who do not provide it to their employees whether they can afford it or not. And if they don't pay the fine, it will be impossed on theri taxes. This has nothing to do with tax breaks. It has to do with imporsing new taxes and fines on you if you don't pay for their insurance whether you can afford it or not and that is unconstitutional.

You were claiming that the individual mandate portion of the health care reform legislation was unconstitutional. Clearly it is within the power of Congress to impose taxes both on individuals and on businesses if it so chooses. There is absolutely no question about the constitutional authority for Congress to do so. In this instance, Congress has chosen to increase income taxes on all, with tax credits for those who are below a certain income level or those who choose to purchase qualified health insurance. Are you saying that tax credits are a bad thing?

Nice try at a spin! This is a tax increase and a new tax forced on you just for deciding NOT to buy something. You are not going to make this look like it is a good thing for anyone. It is not a tax credit. Rates will go up and waits will be so much longer and all for something that the majority of Americans don't want and don't want to pay for. SO they are forcing us by taking it out of our taxes.

The way that it is structured it is a tax on all individuals with a tax credit to those who are below a certain income level and to those who have a qualified insurance policy. There simply is no constitutional basis that prohibits Congress from this activity.

Tilt wrote: So as payback, if states fight a bill approved by our(?) politicians who
Represent(?)us. Say OK states, people. Health care is 100% FREE(tax$)

Imagine the spending frenzy. Quite common nowdays for politicians
to punish the taxpayers using our own money against us.

I know, it is sad that the Federal government uses our tax dollars to pay for filing suit against it's own citizens. I think that if they want to sue Americans to stop what they really desire then the government needs to pay for it out of their own pocket with no tax money. Maybe that would slow them down from subversing the will of the people. It should be a sort of tort reform against the Federal government so they never use our tax dollars against us again.

Something the Dog Said wrote:

The Viking wrote:
Nice try at a spin! This is a tax increase and a new tax forced on you just for deciding NOT to buy something. You are not going to make this look like it is a good thing for anyone. It is not a tax credit. Rates will go up and waits will be so much longer and all for something that the majority of Americans don't want and don't want to pay for. SO they are forcing us by taking it out of our taxes.

The way that it is structured it is a tax on all individuals with a tax credit to those who are below a certain income level and to those who have a qualified insurance policy. There simply is no constitutional basis that prohibits Congress from this activity.

So you are saying that you are OK having the government force you to buy certain goods or services? And then if you refuse, they will make you pay for it whether you like it or not, by deducting it from your taxes? What if they forced you to buy certain enviromentally friendly cars that you didn't want? Or what if they forced you to buy only organic food soon and you didn't want to. Would you be OK with them forcing you to, and if not forcing you to pay another way? The rate this is going, they could do this very soon. Are you OK with them stepping into every area of your private life like this? Where does it end?

The Viking wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:

The Viking wrote:
Nice try at a spin! This is a tax increase and a new tax forced on you just for deciding NOT to buy something. You are not going to make this look like it is a good thing for anyone. It is not a tax credit. Rates will go up and waits will be so much longer and all for something that the majority of Americans don't want and don't want to pay for. SO they are forcing us by taking it out of our taxes.

The way that it is structured it is a tax on all individuals with a tax credit to those who are below a certain income level and to those who have a qualified insurance policy. There simply is no constitutional basis that prohibits Congress from this activity.

So you are saying that you are OK having the government force you to buy certain goods or services? And then if you refuse, they will make you pay for it whether you like it or not, by deducting it from your taxes? What if they forced you to buy certain enviromentally friendly cars that you didn't want? Or what if they forced you to buy only organic food soon and you didn't want to. Would you be OK with them forcing you to, and if not forcing you to pay another way? The rate this is going, they could do this very soon. Are you OK with them stepping into every area of your private life like this? Where does it end?

Whether or not I am "OK" with a government action is of no concern as to whether or not the government action is constitutional. I do not try to claim that only my opinions on issues are "constitutional" and any opposing viewpoint is "unconstitutional". My point is that the health care reform legislation is a political question not a constitutional question.

Something the Dog Said wrote:

The Viking wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:

The Viking wrote:
Nice try at a spin! This is a tax increase and a new tax forced on you just for deciding NOT to buy something. You are not going to make this look like it is a good thing for anyone. It is not a tax credit. Rates will go up and waits will be so much longer and all for something that the majority of Americans don't want and don't want to pay for. SO they are forcing us by taking it out of our taxes.

The way that it is structured it is a tax on all individuals with a tax credit to those who are below a certain income level and to those who have a qualified insurance policy. There simply is no constitutional basis that prohibits Congress from this activity.

So you are saying that you are OK having the government force you to buy certain goods or services? And then if you refuse, they will make you pay for it whether you like it or not, by deducting it from your taxes? What if they forced you to buy certain enviromentally friendly cars that you didn't want? Or what if they forced you to buy only organic food soon and you didn't want to. Would you be OK with them forcing you to, and if not forcing you to pay another way? The rate this is going, they could do this very soon. Are you OK with them stepping into every area of your private life like this? Where does it end?

Whether or not I am "OK" with a government action is of no concern as to whether or not the government action is constitutional. I do not try to claim that only my opinions on issues are "constitutional" and any opposing viewpoint is "unconstitutional". My point is that the health care reform legislation is a political question not a constitutional question.

I guess we will see when this case hits the SCOTUS