Supremes Vote 5-4 To Support Public Prayer

Faith and belief? Like Al Gore when he said the oceans were going to flood coastal cities and it didn't happen?

Something the Dog Said wrote: Note that Jefferson selected the phrase "endowed by their Creator" to ensure that it was not specific to the christian God, but encompasses any and all others believed by their adherents to have created their lifeform. In fact that phrase did not even mean what you ascribe to it, since Jefferson obviously did not include women, Africans, Native Americans among others to be "all men". The Constitution makes no mention of a christian God, but did explicitly demand that no religious test would be allowed to hold political office.

That phrase is not found anywhere in the Bible, New or Old Testament. Instead it was derived partly from the philospher John Locke in his seminal work "Second Treatise of Civil Government and Jefferson confidant Phillipe Mazzei who wrote "All men are by nature equally free and independent. Such equality is necessary in order to create a free government.
All men must be equal to each other in natural law"

To claim that natural law is derived from Christianity is hubris. The theory of natural law goes back to the teachings of Plato, Aristotle, and the Stoics.

The Constitution of the United States is based on We, the People, not on superstition.

And tell us Dog, what is Locke's background? Christian, right? Are you thus trying to convince us that Christian philosophy had nothing to do with the development of his philosophies on governing? You don't really think you can pull that one off, do you? That would not only defy common sense, it would defy the historical record of Locke himself.

And you are factually incorrect with regards to the Constitution. It was submitted to the States for ratification on the "Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven". That will be found in Article VII of the Constitution in case you want to see it for yourself.

What is hubris is that there are those today who wish to proclaim that Christian philosophy is absent from our framing documents despite every bit of evidence to the contrary. What is factually true is attempted to be minimized or erased entirely from the historical record in pursuit of their own ideological superstitions.

How cute... You got to use Al Gore in a sentence... All the scientists are saying it--the question is "when"?... Coastal cities are for a rough ride--and it maybe as early as 80-100 years.

"Floods May Cost Coastal Cities $60 Billion a Year by 2050"

He was right....

:Snooze

Like when The Idiot Son told us there were WMD's...and there weren't?

C'mon, Fred... I LOVE it when you put your foot in your mouth, over and over and over and....

I guess you forgot which thread this is... This is the one about "Supporting Public Prayer"....NOT whether or not Al Gore's projections are going to be on time or not. On the other hand, perhaps you can provide us with a LINK or a SOURCE that shows Al Gore said it would be happening by now?

:LMAO: :rofllol :LMAO: :rofllol :LMAO: :rofllol :LMAO: :rofllol :LMAO: :rofllol

Coastal cities face $1 trillion floods by 2050: study
In less than 40 years from now the cost to the world's biggest coastal cities from flooding is expected to have risen to $1tn – 0.7% of the value of the entire world economy in 2012

PrintSmith wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote: Note that Jefferson selected the phrase "endowed by their Creator" to ensure that it was not specific to the christian God, but encompasses any and all others believed by their adherents to have created their lifeform. In fact that phrase did not even mean what you ascribe to it, since Jefferson obviously did not include women, Africans, Native Americans among others to be "all men". The Constitution makes no mention of a christian God, but did explicitly demand that no religious test would be allowed to hold political office.

That phrase is not found anywhere in the Bible, New or Old Testament. Instead it was derived partly from the philospher John Locke in his seminal work "Second Treatise of Civil Government and Jefferson confidant Phillipe Mazzei who wrote "All men are by nature equally free and independent. Such equality is necessary in order to create a free government.
All men must be equal to each other in natural law"

To claim that natural law is derived from Christianity is hubris. The theory of natural law goes back to the teachings of Plato, Aristotle, and the Stoics.

The Constitution of the United States is based on We, the People, not on superstition.

And tell us Dog, what is Locke's background? Christian, right? Are you thus trying to convince us that Christian philosophy had nothing to do with the development of his philosophies on governing? You don't really think you can pull that one off, do you? That would not only defy common sense, it would defy the historical record of Locke himself.

And you are factually incorrect with regards to the Constitution. It was submitted to the States for ratification on the "Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven". That will be found in Article VII of the Constitution in case you want to see it for yourself.

What is hubris is that there are those today who wish to proclaim that Christian philosophy is absent from our framing documents despite every bit of evidence to the contrary. What is factually true is attempted to be minimized or erased entirely from the historical record in pursuit of their own ideological superstitions.

Really, you are going to base your whole supposition that the Constitution is a christian document on the common date nomenclature of that time? Really?

Every bit of evidence to the contrary? Really? Try reading the writings of the drafters of the Constitution and those of Jefferson. Jefferson did not consider himself a "christian" but was instead a "deist". He considered Christ to be a moral philosopher, editing out the religious components of his "Jefferson" Bible. Jefferson definitively stated that "There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites" (quoted by newspaper columnist William Edelen, "Politics and Religious Illiteracy," Truth Seeker, Vol. 121, No. 3, p. 33
The "religious right" of that time had this to say about Jefferson:
"
The religious issue was dragged out, and stirred up flames of hatred and intolerance. Clergymen, mobilizing their heaviest artillery of thunder and brimstone, threatened Christians with all manner of dire consequences if they should vote for the "in fidel" from Virginia. This was particularly true in New England, where the clergy stood like Gibraltar against Jefferson (Jefferson A Great American's Life and Ideas, Mentor Books, 1964, p.116).

Try reading the writings of James Madison who had this to say about the Constitution and religion:

An alliance or coalition between Government and religion cannot be too carefully guarded against......Every new and successful example therefore of a PERFECT SEPARATION between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance........religion and government will exist in greater purity, without (rather) than with the aid of government. [James Madison in a letter to Livingston, 1822, from Leonard W. Levy- The Establishment Clause, Religion and the First Amendment,pg 124]
Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects. [James Madison, letter to William Bradford, Jr., Jauary 1774]

Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. [James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, addressed to the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia, 1785]
Freedom arises from the multiplicity of sects, which prevades America and which is the best and only security for religious liberty in any society. For where there is such a variety of sects, there cannot be a majority of any one sect to oppress and persecute the rest. [James Madison, spoken at the Virginia convention on ratifying the Constitution, June 1778]

Strongly guarded... is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States.

Yep, every bit of evidence to the contrary! Right.

Clearly and unequivocally, the founding fathers did not intend the political structure of this great country to be theocracy, despite your attempts to so claim. If Jefferson and Franklin had intended the phrase about all men being equal and rights endowed by the individuals Creator to be about Christ, they would have certainly phrased it to so reflect. Perhaps you should read Jefferson's writings about state and religion before you make such claims.

And it is still hubris to claim that natural law is derived from Christ. It was developed well before the time of Christ, by atheists Plato and Aristotle and from the paganistic Stoics.

Something the Dog Said wrote: Really, you are going to base your whole supposition that the Constitution is a christian document on the common date nomenclature of that time? Really?

You don't get to make up a premise for me and then argue against it Dog. That is the height of disingenuousness, though certainly a favored tactic of yours. What I said is that the Constitution is based in Christian philosophy, not that it is a Christian document. There is a distinct and definitive difference between the two. Argue against the argument I make, not the one you wish I would make.

Yet there is no a single shred of evidence that the Constitution is based in Christian philosophy as I have pointed out. The Founding Fathers went out of their way to avoid any such bias. Jefferson, Madison, Franklin, even Washington avoided any inferences to christianity. Jefferson and Madison particularly went to great lengths to argue against any involvement between church and state, particularly with christianity. Instead, as I have pointed out the premise of "all men being created equal" dates back to the atheist philosophers Plato and Aristotles and from the paganist Stoics, all well before the time of Christ. Can you point out where in the bible any mention of "all men created equal"? Your evidence is solely based on the common date nomenclature used in that time. You can continue with ad homien attacks, but your premise is entirely faulty. You simply have zero evidence that the Constitution is based on "christian philosophy", whatever that means. The Constitution and this great nation is built on We, the People, not on superstition.

LadyJazzer wrote:
I guess you forgot which thread this is... This is the one about "Supporting Public Prayer"....NOT whether or not Al Gore's projections are going to be on time or not. On the other hand, perhaps you can provide us with a LINK or a SOURCE that shows Al Gore said it would be happening by now?

:LMAO: :rofllol :LMAO: :rofllol :LMAO: :rofllol :LMAO: :rofllol :LMAO: :rofllol

Coastal cities face $1 trillion floods by 2050: study
In less than 40 years from now the cost to the world's biggest coastal cities from flooding is expected to have risen to $1tn – 0.7% of the value of the entire world economy in 2012

Al Gore the high priest of global warming was predicting all sea ice would be gone by 2014. Liar! Tired of your party lying to you and creating false panic? Hard for us to take AGW seriously when the dire effects haven't happened. As full of falsehoods as Obama's empty promises about job creation.

FredHayek wrote:

LadyJazzer wrote:
I guess you forgot which thread this is... This is the one about "Supporting Public Prayer"....NOT whether or not Al Gore's projections are going to be on time or not. On the other hand, perhaps you can provide us with a LINK or a SOURCE that shows Al Gore said it would be happening by now?

:LMAO: :rofllol :LMAO: :rofllol :LMAO: :rofllol :LMAO: :rofllol :LMAO: :rofllol

Coastal cities face $1 trillion floods by 2050: study
In less than 40 years from now the cost to the world's biggest coastal cities from flooding is expected to have risen to $1tn – 0.7% of the value of the entire world economy in 2012

Al Gore the high priest of global warming was predicting all sea ice would be gone by 2014. Liar! Tired of your party lying to you and creating false panic? Hard for us to take AGW seriously when the dire effects haven't happened. As full of falsehoods as Obama's empty promises about job creation.

You either have a LINK or SOURCE to prove that...or you don't.

I don't suppose you mean this:

Mr. Gore’s office said it was a “ballpark figure” that Dr. Maslowski used in a conversation several years ago....hat brochure does not say anything about the Arctic becoming “completely ice free” as Gore said. Rather it says it “could become near ice free.”

Maslowski emphasized that point in the Times story saying, “I was very explicit that we were talking about near-ice-free conditions and not completely ice-free conditions in the northern ocean. It’s unclear to me how this figure was arrived at, based on the information I provided to Al Gore’s office.”

I don't much care if the Flat-Earth Society, i.e., the Koch Brothers/Heartland Institute continues to give away Kool-Aid. The deniers are starting to look as silly and stupid as the Creationists.

In one case, we have an estimate that is about 35 years off. And in the other we have 4,781 DEAD U.S. service men and women, killed because of the lies of YOUR party.... I'm sill waiting for those WMD's... Tired of YOUR party lying to YOU?

Bush admitted they were wrong about the WMD's but Gore refuses to say he is sorry for his alarmist predictions. You decide who is the better man.

He has nothing to apologize for...

But thanks for playing... And Bush has NEVER apologized for lying about the WMD's.