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I realize this father is very emotional at this point in his very long journey in healing, but the use of the word "crazy" also helps perpetuate a stigma associated with mental illness that some of us are trying very hard to help clarify. My thoughts and condolences go out to him and family. No one should have to be required to endure what they are now being forced to endure. My hope is that he will, at some point, see things a bit more clearly than he is right now, and that he will perhaps take a moment to clarify his thoughts on this issue.
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Of course not, where did you get that from my post? Yes, there are also people who have been through severe mental stress, like soldiers and victims of rape etc.. .. that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about people who feel like victims to the point of needing revenge OR people who feel superior with little regard for human life. I believe that both type of people were raised in environments and/or by parents who may have the same issues. I don't call that mental illness, I think it's a product of a growing narcissistic and nihilistic society.ZHawke wrote:
Rick wrote: I think we throw the term "mental illness" around far to easily and frequently. Were the 9/11 terrorists all mentally ill, or were they just really really bad people with no regard for human life? I believe this country has been creating bad people through media images that a certain percentage of people become desensitized to... then add the devolving family structure and we get a group of people who feel justified and have nothing to lose. Yes, there are people who have biological problems in their brains, but for the most part, I just see a society that breeds a lack of respect for human life and now those "chickens are coming home to roost" (to quote another bad guy who happens to be a racist).
Are you including veterans and first responders suffering from PTSD in that group of people having "biological problems in their brains"?
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Rick wrote: Of course not, where did you get that from my post? Yes, there are also people who have been through severe mental stress, like soldiers and victims of rape etc.. .. that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about people who feel like victims to the point of needing revenge OR people who feel superior with little regard for human life. I believe that both type of people were raised in environments and/or by parents who may have the same issues. I don't call that mental illness, I think it's a product of a growing narcissistic and nihilistic society.
Rick wrote: I think we throw the term "mental illness" around far to easily and frequently. Were the 9/11 terrorists all mentally ill, or were they just really really bad people with no regard for human life? I believe this country has been creating bad people through media images that a certain percentage of people become desensitized to... then add the devolving family structure and we get a group of people who feel justified and have nothing to lose. Yes, there are people who have biological problems in their brains, but for the most part, I just see a society that breeds a lack of respect for human life and now those "chickens are coming home to roost" (to quote another bad guy who happens to be a racist).
you may be right. They say people are a product of their environment, after all. However, if a parent has mental health issues, isn't it also more likely their children can have mental health issues passed down to them via heredity? Seems logical to me.I believe that both type of people were raised in environments and/or by parents who may have the same issues. I don't call that mental illness, I think it's a product of a growing narcissistic and nihilistic society
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FredHayek wrote: We could always ban guns. We banned alcohol during Prohibition but maybe this time it will work better. We could use Mexico as an example, they have the most stringent gun laws in the Western Hemisphere. That hasn't seemed to reduce crime, in fact, the cartels buy guns from the army and police. US shouldn't have the corruption problem Mexico does, but state and local governments were very corrupted by alcohol prohibition in the 1920's. One of my relatives owned a New Jersey speakeasy and he bought IRS agents and local police and judges.
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Sorry, but the fact that I didn't think about PTSD when I made that post doesn't really mean anything other than I forgot about that specific condition until you brought it up.ZHawke wrote:
Rick wrote: Of course not, where did you get that from my post? Yes, there are also people who have been through severe mental stress, like soldiers and victims of rape etc.. .. that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about people who feel like victims to the point of needing revenge OR people who feel superior with little regard for human life. I believe that both type of people were raised in environments and/or by parents who may have the same issues. I don't call that mental illness, I think it's a product of a growing narcissistic and nihilistic society.
Rick, I think you might want to revisit your post.
Rick wrote: I think we throw the term "mental illness" around far to easily and frequently. Were the 9/11 terrorists all mentally ill, or were they just really really bad people with no regard for human life? I believe this country has been creating bad people through media images that a certain percentage of people become desensitized to... then add the devolving family structure and we get a group of people who feel justified and have nothing to lose. Yes, there are people who have biological problems in their brains, but for the most part, I just see a society that breeds a lack of respect for human life and now those "chickens are coming home to roost" (to quote another bad guy who happens to be a racist).
Where, in that post, did you make a clarification defining what you meant by mental illness. All you did was ask about some obvious religious zealots. You also mentioned "biological problems". That, to me, left little to no room for including PTSD in your analysis. That's just one of the many reasons why I say this is a more complex issue than meets the eye.
The Mayo Clinic also defines narcissism as a mental disorder:
Narcissistic personality disorder
Nihilism, on the other hand, isn't quite so easy to define from what I've researched. Truth is, nihilism, if it isn't "technically" considered a mental illness, can often times either be related to, or can become a definable mental illness even associated with nihilistic delusions .
My point is that nothing....not anything....in life is ever as simple as we'd perhaps like it to be. Our own perceptions of things dictate how we react to those things. In my first wife's case, I could have left her. I could have divorced her. Or, she could have done either of those to me. It would certainly have been easier on all of us rather than putting us through the Hell of having to deal with her taking her own life, especially in the manner in which she did it. Neither of us chose either of those paths, not because they weren't an option, but, rather, because our relationship with each other was rooted in love and commitment to each other.
So, I choose to try and look at root causes in an effort to try and find out a little more about why people do the things they do. I also look at statements like those you are making here, and I draw a conclusion (right or wrong) that you are kind of "sitting in judgment" of people you know little about --- what their life experiences are, what they are currently experiencing, what their medical history might be, and so on. From my perspective, those are blanket judgments that do a disservice to those individuals struggling on a day to day basis with mental conditions they'd just as soon not have, but also have very little control over.
When you sayyou may be right. They say people are a product of their environment, after all. However, if a parent has mental health issues, isn't it also more likely their children can have mental health issues passed down to them via heredity? Seems logical to me.I believe that both type of people were raised in environments and/or by parents who may have the same issues. I don't call that mental illness, I think it's a product of a growing narcissistic and nihilistic society
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Rick wrote: Sorry, but the fact that I didn't think about PTSD when I made that post doesn't really mean anything other than I forgot about that specific condition until you brought it up.
I really don't have time to go into this circular argument, but will just summarize and repeat what I already stated... I believe there are bad people created by a devolving society who are NOT mentally ill, just bad, or just don't have very much respect for human life in general. I also don't believe that every suicide is due to a mental illness... some people just can't cope with what is happening in their lives and tap out. I'm not sure how else to put it, but feel free to continue without me, I'm tapping out on this topic because it is becoming a waste of my time.
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I agree. There is genuine mental illness, and then there are people who try to use that as an excuse to avoid accountability. As for suicides, I've written elsewhere though I'm not sure if it included here, that suicides are not always due to depression or mental illness. Sometimes it is the final effort in which to punish and inflict as much harm as possible to those who loved them and whom they feel betrayed them or let them down.Rick wrote: Sorry, but the fact that I didn't think about PTSD when I made that post doesn't really mean anything other than I forgot about that specific condition until you brought it up.
I really don't have time to go into this circular argument, but will just summarize and repeat what I already stated... I believe there are bad people created by a devolving society who are NOT mentally ill, just bad, or just don't have very much respect for human life in general. I also don't believe that every suicide is due to a mental illness... some people just can't cope with what is happening in their lives and tap out.
House Democrat Rep. Carolyn Maloney (N.Y.) has introduced a bill that would require gun owners to carry liability insurance.
The Firearm Risk Protection Act, unveiled Friday, would require gun buyers to have liability insurance coverage before being allowed to purchase a weapon, and would impose a fine of $10,000 if an owner is found not to have it. Service members and law enforcement officers, however, would be exempt from the requirement.
“We require insurance to own a car, but no such requirement exists for guns," Maloney said in a statement. "The results are clear: car fatalities have declined by 25 percent in the last decade, but gun fatalities continue to rise.”
Maloney said auto insurance carriers incentivize drivers to take precautions to reduce accidents, but no such incentives exist for firearm owners. “An insurance requirement would allow the free market to encourage cautious behavior and help save lives,” she said.
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ScienceChic wrote: I agree. There is genuine mental illness, and then there are people who try to use that as an excuse to avoid accountability. As for suicides, I've written elsewhere though I'm not sure if it included here, that suicides are not always due to depression or mental illness. Sometimes it is the final effort in which to punish and inflict as much harm as possible to those who loved them and whom they feel betrayed them or let them down.
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