Guns Don't Kill People, People Kill People

This article by Dave Cullen, the author of "Columbine", explains a lot, and gets close to what a couple previous posts were illustrative of regarding bad people among us. Although the perps in this article are named, it wasn't for notoriety. Dave indicated in a FB post the only reason he was doing so was because it was the only way to keep the perps and the incidents straight and connected.

The "Injustice Collectors": How to Understand Vester Flanagan’s Grievance-Filled Manifesto

ZHawke wrote:

FredHayek wrote: We could always ban guns. We banned alcohol during Prohibition but maybe this time it will work better. We could use Mexico as an example, they have the most stringent gun laws in the Western Hemisphere. That hasn't seemed to reduce crime, in fact, the cartels buy guns from the army and police. US shouldn't have the corruption problem Mexico does, but state and local governments were very corrupted by alcohol prohibition in the 1920's. One of my relatives owned a New Jersey speakeasy and he bought IRS agents and local police and judges.

Who, specifically, is calling for a ban on guns? That's a very tired argument, Fred. It also goes to the automotive comparison between cars and guns.

Mark Hamill and other celebrities are calling for an Aussie style ban on guns so it isn't that much of an outlier as you believe. Britain too seized thousands of handguns, including historic collectibles, that were destroyed.

FredHayek wrote: Mark Hamill and other celebrities are calling for an Aussie style ban on guns so it isn't that much of an outlier as you believe. Britain too seized thousands of handguns, including historic collectibles, that were destroyed.

Last I checked, Mark Hamill and other celebrities don't have any authority in that arena. They may call for it, but it simply is not going to happen no matter how much anyone in Hollywood calls for it, and rightfully so.

Britain and Australia are often pointed to by pro-gun advocates as examples of what goes wrong when guns are confiscated. So, it doesn't surprise me you are bringing up Great Britain to bolster your position. Problem is, neither country, Great Britain nor Australia, is the U.S., nor is the U.S. going to follow their "example". In fact, if organizations like the NRA have their way, exactly the opposite will happen. There will be more guns everywhere and less regulation surrounding acquiring one.

Tens of millions of guns have been sold since President Obama was elected and gun violence hasn't increased. Strange to see this, you would have to think it should go up, especially with all the mental illness, but it hasn't

FredHayek wrote: Tens of millions of guns have been sold since President Obama was elected and gun violence hasn't increased. Strange to see this, you would have to think it should go up, especially with all the mental illness, but it hasn't

With ALL the mental illness? Really?

Also, when you say tens of millions of guns have been sold, doesn't that also dispel the government coming to take your guns myth?

When a storm is forecast my family prudently prepares by buying additional provisions. When Obama was elected we, as did myriads of other citizens, purchased firearms and ammunition in case of enactment of policies similar to those in Australia and Britain. Many in the Democrat party espouse such policies.
The purchase of "millions of guns" does not dispel a myth, it was an exercise in preparedness.

ZHawke wrote:

FredHayek wrote: Tens of millions of guns have been sold since President Obama was elected and gun violence hasn't increased. Strange to see this, you would have to think it should go up, especially with all the mental illness, but it hasn't

With ALL the mental illness? Really?

Also, when you say tens of millions of guns have been sold, doesn't that also dispel the government coming to take your guns myth?

Perception is everything. If you say you want to address gun violence, like President Obama does, people stock up before new legislation is passed. After the magazine ban passed in Colorado, I bought up all the magazines I think I would need for the future. I even bought magazines for guns I didn't currently own.

If Hillary wins in 2016, she will likely get the Senate back and possibly the House, think she will restrict gun rights? I predict you will see a new record amount of guns, magazines and ammunition will be sold from election day through her first 100 days.


There are a lot of mentally ill people out there, more than before, or possibly, more people diagnosed than before. Think the Aurora theater shooter wasn't mentally ill? How about the Gabby Gifford's gunman?

ramage wrote: When a storm is forecast my family prudently prepares by buying additional provisions. When Obama was elected we, as did myriads of other citizens, purchased firearms and ammunition in case of enactment of policies similar to those in Australia and Britain. Many in the Democrat party espouse such policies.
The purchase of "millions of guns" does not dispel a myth, it was an exercise in preparedness.

Preparedness is one thing. A "perception" of necessary preparedness to a non-existent "threat" is quite another:

FredHayek wrote: Perception is everything. If you say you want to address gun violence, like President Obama does, people stock up before new legislation is passed. After the magazine ban passed in Colorado, I bought up all the magazines I think I would need for the future. I even bought magazines for guns I didn't currently own.

If Hillary wins in 2016, she will likely get the Senate back and possibly the House, think she will restrict gun rights? I predict you will see a new record amount of guns, magazines and ammunition will be sold from election day through her first 100 days.


There are a lot of mentally ill people out there, more than before, or possibly, more people diagnosed than before. Think the Aurora theater shooter wasn't mentally ill? How about the Gabby Gifford's gunman?

Fred, we've already covered about as much as we possibly can on the "mental illness" issue. Did you miss all of that?

You're right about perception, though. I'll give you that.

Meme' is not argument. If President Obama had the House and Senate, he would be taking away guns. He doesn't have the power to do it, but he tries, last year, the ATF tried to ban 5.56mm ammunition with green tips, claiming it was armor piercing and needed to be taken off the streets. The GOP shot down this attempt but not before warehouses both here and overseas sold out of the round.

California has banned lead bullets for hunting due to environmental reasons, but the scientific ground is very shaky. Guns are pretty useless if you can't get ammunition for them.