This is how fascism comes to America

30 May 2016 11:55 #1 by ScienceChic
What I fear most with the outcome of this election is that no matter who is elected, and barring a miracle we can assume it will be a Democrat or a Republican again, that our politics will only become more partisan, further divided, increasingly contentious, and decreasingly productive or effective at accomplishing anything to improve the problems we have in this country. The elections are already us vs them, there will be no unity behind whomever is elected because people now think the system is rigged, our politicians corrupt regardless, and that listening to others and compromising is somehow a weakness. We've settled into a "I'm a [insert political party of choice] first, not an American first" way of thinking and that line will lead to worse unless we recognize our own part in it and stop it.

This is how fascism comes to America
By Robert Kagan
May 18, 2016

But of course the entire Trump phenomenon has nothing to do with policy or ideology. It has nothing to do with the Republican Party, either, except in its historic role as incubator of this singular threat to our democracy. Trump has transcended the party that produced him. His growing army of supporters no longer cares about the party. Because it did not immediately and fully embrace Trump, because a dwindling number of its political and intellectual leaders still resist him, the party is regarded with suspicion and even hostility by his followers. Their allegiance is to him and him alone.

Republican politicians marvel at how he has “tapped into” a hitherto unknown swath of the voting public. But what he has tapped into is what the founders most feared when they established the democratic republic: the popular passions unleashed, the “mobocracy.” Conservatives have been warning for decades about government suffocating liberty. But here is the other threat to liberty that Alexis de Tocqueville and the ancient philosophers warned about: that the people in a democracy, excited, angry and unconstrained, might run roughshod over even the institutions created to preserve their freedoms. As Alexander Hamilton watched the French Revolution unfold, he feared in America what he saw play out in France — that the unleashing of popular passions would lead not to greater democracy but to the arrival of a tyrant, riding to power on the shoulders of the people.

This phenomenon has arisen in other democratic and quasi-democratic countries over the past century, and it has generally been called “fascism.” Fascist movements, too, had no coherent ideology, no clear set of prescriptions for what ailed society. “National socialism” was a bundle of contradictions, united chiefly by what, and who, it opposed; fascism in Italy was anti-liberal, anti-democratic, anti-Marxist, anti-capitalist and anti-clerical. Successful fascism was not about policies but about the strongman, the leader (Il Duce, Der Führer), in whom could be entrusted the fate of the nation. Whatever the problem, he could fix it. Whatever the threat, internal or external, he could vanquish it, and it was unnecessary for him to explain how.

Yesterday a friend of my BIL Shared a piece of sh*t lying meme about Obama's speech in Japan to my BIL's Facebook wall. If you haven't seen it, it's from Rednecks Unlimited and it shows a picture of the mushroom cloud after we dropped a nuke on Hiroshima, states (falsely) that Obama apologized for nuking the Japanese during his recent visit, then showed pictures of the destruction at Pearl Harbor, then had a picture of the Pearl Harbor memorial and said " We shouldn't be apologizing for anything. Like if you Agree" - an obvious attempt to gain Facebook activity by encouraging followers to Like and Share (and at last check, it had over 12,000 Shares, despite several comments on that thread pointing out their lying bullsh*t). After pointing out that Obama didn't apologize and admonishing them to fact check before believing bullshit memes, we had a great conversation on how our politicians don't do jack for our veterans and lamenting the lack of good leaders running for President. At one point he made this comment:

The way I believe it is that our president should do what every veteran since I've been alive and then before has to dig deep and take our country back and make us great again it absolutely makes me sick to see what I think it's about to happen we need a strong strong leader no doubt no question

To which I replied,

This country is still great, the issues we face are all within our ability to solve with the ingenuity, technology, courage, and determination that we possess; we simply need the partisan politics to stop and the corruption to be addressed. No one side has all the right answers, our country was founded on many disparate opinions coming together and compromising to find the best solution forward - we HAVE to get back to that. We aren't Republicans or Democrats first, we are Americans, and we need to remember that. And we need our leaders to remember that.

We deserve better than voting for the "lesser of two evils" and it's time we stopped holding our noses and accepting what's being handed to us but rather stand up and vote for what and who we actually want. If Congress has a dismal approval rating, why are they getting re-elected? Vote for someone else! That's how we get change.

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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30 May 2016 17:32 #2 by Blazer Bob
The one think I love about Trump is how he makes liberals and conservatives hysterical :knitting: .

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30 May 2016 19:31 #3 by hillfarmer
There is nothing to celebrate about Trump. He is the ultimate con-man - and cry-baby.

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30 May 2016 22:06 #4 by Blazer Bob

hillfarmer wrote: There is nothing to celebrate about Trump. He is the ultimate con-man - and cry-baby.


Which makes him different from most politicians How?

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31 May 2016 08:33 #5 by FredHayek
Fascism? I doubt either Trump, Sanders, or Hillary will bring fascism to this land. None of them have the support. The checks and balances built into our government lead me to believe they will all be weak leaders who have a difficult time getting their agenda passed. And I think all of them will only be one term presidents, too old, and once again, little support.

The Democrats have 240 of the 270 votes needed for election locked up. Those states have voted Democrat since 1992 (per www.electoralvote.com ), so it is most likely Ms. Clinton will win and I expect her to continue the same neocon policies of Bush & Obama. :popcorn2:

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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03 Jun 2016 08:22 #6 by Blazer Bob
Looks like SC was right. When leftests get scared of loosing power their true colors come out.

"Protesters Assault Trump Supporters With Eggs, Bottles, Punches After Rally"...

www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/p...mpaign&utm_term=Jolt

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03 Jun 2016 08:49 #7 by FredHayek
Disgraceful! Will they also attack the Democrat National Convention when Bernie doesn't get the nomination? I saw an earlier anti-Trump riot where an innocent horse had its leg fractured by these hooligans. Sounds more like the tactics of Hitler and Mussolini.

Trump supporters aren't attacking Bernie rallies.

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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03 Jun 2016 17:45 - 03 Jun 2016 17:46 #8 by hillfarmer
Your comments suggest you are condemning all those not as far right as you are of perpetrating these kinds of attacks. I'm sure you didn't mean to do that. A small percentage of both the right and left condone violence to achieve their goals. Do a bit of research and you will find plenty of examples of far right individuals doing the same (does the name Robert Lewis Dear ring a bell?) It is abhorrent no matter who perpetrates it.

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04 Jun 2016 10:07 #9 by Rick

hillfarmer wrote: Your comments suggest you are condemning all those not as far right as you are of perpetrating these kinds of attacks. I'm sure you didn't mean to do that. A small percentage of both the right and left condone violence to achieve their goals. Do a bit of research and you will find plenty of examples of far right individuals doing the same (does the name Robert Lewis Dear ring a bell?) It is abhorrent no matter who perpetrates it.

I don't think comparing a mentally ill madman to crowds of rioters makes much sense. We were told the tea party movement was a bunch of racist haters by the same media who remains mostly silent on these rioting POS "Americans". The Tea Party protestors turned out to be peaceful and even cleaned up after themselves but that's not the narrative spewed by the media who IS NOT outraged over these Trump protests. Out president is of course silent, other than going after Trump as a part of his 8 year endless campaigning. Trump is a loud mouth who can't temper his tone and I personally think he's as phony as they come, but these protestors are responsible for their own actions which are often criminal and at the very least damaging to their cause.

It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy

George Orwell

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04 Jun 2016 10:25 - 04 Jun 2016 10:35 #10 by Arlen
I am amazed that the Trump phenomenon is misunderstood. Here is my take on the Republican Party:

1. Politicians are liars.
2. The GOP and politicians only care about their career and reelection to keep it.
3. The GOP and politicians depend upon large donors to get campaign money. No campaign money - no reelection.
4. The GOP and politicians lie to the electorate to get their vote
4. After election to office, the GOP and politicians do what the large donors want, not what the electorate wants
5. The politicians in the GOP do not care about the United States of America. The only care about the GOP and their position in the GOP.
6. The GOP will offer candidates who are milk toast candidates who cannot win the presidency. These candidates are hoisted upon the rank and file Republicans by unfair party rules and controlling the campaign financing.
7. The 24-hour news cycle and the internet have educated the voting public as to how the senators and representatives have done nothing to fulfill their campaign promises.
8. The anger within and toward the GOP started with George H W Bush and increased greatly with his son George W Bush whenever it was finally realized that the unprovoked war in Iraq was based on lies.
9. The TEA Party was a result of the anger within and toward the GOP.
10. The GOP treated the TEA Party as an enemy, publicly. This increased the anger.
11. The rank and file elected the GOP as the majority party in the House of Representatives. Nothing happened.
12. So the rank and file elected the GOP as the majority party in the Senate.
Nothing happened.
13. Anger is now at a fever pitch.
14. Trump did not inspire his current followers. They were there as a result of the GOP's loyalty to their party and the large donors. If it was not Trump, it would have been Cruz. Cruz ran for nomination because his career was toast. The GOP was going to campaign heavily against him during his reelection and withhold campaign funds from him. He had no other choice but run for president. What Trump had over Cruz was that Trump was absolutely not a politician.
15. The GOP is totally against Trump because they want to keep their jobs and power. If Trump is elected, he will be the head of the GOP and appoint his own people. The Establishment will no longer be the Establishment. They care not for the good of the country but only for the status quo of the GOP.
16. The GOP would rather see Hillary Clinton elected president before they lose their power in the Republican Party. So you see the Never Trump movement and their attempt at a third party candidate.

Trump followers do not love Trump. Trump followers are just extremely angry at the GOP. Angry enough to destroy the GOP.

Trump? Count me in!

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