The idiot king

and while we're at it if someone wants to correct my grammar feel free.... if someone's grammatical output in this forum were the real problem in this country we should all be so lucky.

No one ever said it would solve the problem. But it will hep to reduce the problem. It is not only a wall but also includes other measures, but the simplistic press just likes to scream "wall". Illegal crossings are down and part of that is because we have built walls in the past that have done a great job reducing numbers to 400,000 crossings, but this is still way too high. It is estimated illegal aliens consume 95 billion in social welfare costs, mainly education, healthcare, and the costs of locking them up. In some states, 25% of felons are illegal aliens. Crowded jails due to feel good sanctuary policies that let foreign criminals get released.

parkcobound wrote: www.foxnews.com/politics/heres-what-5-bi...ll-funding-would-buy

if you boys are done arguing over who is smarter..... here is my argument - so you can insult me instead Fred. the 5 billion dollars that you think the dems should concede to will not fix the problem. I sourced Fox news since that is Trump's favorite the whole project is 5 times that amount - so in my mind, how does this remedy the "emergency" if there is a hoard of criminals headed our way? Even IF the dems did come up with a compromise, McConnell has said he will not put to a vote anything the President will not sign. Plus here's a gem for you, this would be a government project, which means it has to be let for bids every step of the way. I've searched for an article but have not yet found one that gives any realistic timeline even if the money was delivered today to the door step of the white house.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/15/...wall-status-migrants

I have a sincere suspicion that even if the entire border were walled up like the great wall of china by the end of the week, folks who want to come in illegally will find a way. Yes it may be more difficult, but will throwing that kind of money at the problem really solve the problem. I am not aware of whether or not the 9/11 hijackers came into this country through the Mexico border, my recollection on those facts fails me at the moment, however I do not believe the "emergency" exists in the manner the President wants us to believe. I believe the emergency for HIM is that he promised his constituents a wall and even though what he is proposing will only cover a small portion of the border, he needs to get it in or he is afraid he will not be re-elected in 2020.

I also firmly believe that while there are instances of abuse of the system by BOTH legal and illegal aliens, the system is equally abused by folks that were born in this country and this wall will not solve any of those issues.

I have concerns over where the money is going to come from, particularly with the recent tax code overhaul and the thing that concerns me more than anything is that this money could be put to better use inside the country on infrastructure or programs that create jobs (and don't quote to me the jobs numbers - just because so many people have jobs, does not mean they make enough to actually pay their bills - or don't hold down 3 jobs before they are able to pay their bills - being employed does not necessarily solve the economic problems in this country) that actually make a difference in peoples lives and further our economy. Certainly I am not an expert, but that is my viewpoint and I have a serious issue with either party holding all of the federal workers' jobs hostage over a wall that may or may not solve any real problems.

At this point Fred I am a firm non-believer in the wall solving anything. immigration reform is necessary sure. My point is the expense is too high, both in the form of the current shut down which is going to wreck the economy if it isn't resolved soon, and in the actual monetary expense. He's demanding $5.7B which is only a small portion of the wall. $25B is needed to complete it - in todays dollars which is of course only an estimate. And I'm going to add my blatantly liberal viewpoint here - which ought to start a total s**t show but here it is anyway - I have a friend who runs a pretty good sized construction company and he hires anyone who will do the work and do a good job, this includes some who may or may not be 100% legal because that is the only way he can be fully staffed. It may sound racist, but I am white and I'm going to say it anyway, a lot of white people who would be of the right age to work for him are lazy and never stay very long. Many of the folks I know that came to this country because they need the work actually work. They are HARD workers. They are not on benefits, they may work 3 jobs to make ends meet. Which ever side of the argument you research will give faulty numbers about how many illegals are on welfare for sure - but I have said before and will maintain that if folks from other countries, Mexico included, are here to work, and are contributing to our economy, often working in jobs that todays' young people do not want, why do we not want them here. They pay rent here, they buy their groceries here etc. Certainly they are not all good, some are drug dealers etc, however, there are also folks who were born in this country who never work, live off the system and are criminals as well. Is it realistic to think we can weed through all of the immigrants and determine whether they will work when they get here? no of course not. My point is immigration has been a problem for a long time, nothing has changed, and even if Trump gets is $5.7B and builds his wall, the problem will still be there. In the mean time, a government shut down is not good for anyone and while I will agree that both sides have dug their heals in, it is also true that essentially both sides are supposed to represent their constituents and the public is divided 1/2 for and 1/2 against. So, are the democrats supposed to betray their constituents and vote for this huge expense that I don't think this country can actually afford right now just to make Trump happy and get the government back open? As I recall there was discussion of a compromise a couple of weeks ago and McConnell said he wouldn't put it to a vote because the President would not sign it (maybe it was in the $2- $3B range?) which I am sure is because the democrats now outnumber the republicans and the potential is there for an override. Personally I think any amount of money - even the entire $25B would not solve the immigration problem. If you and your family live in one of the countries south of the border and you were constantly in fear of being killed by rebels and drug dealers, have no jobs because there aren't any - the US, even with all of our problems would look pretty good to you and while I wish they would all apply for citizenship legally, I can also take a step back and understand why they feel compelled to come here regardless of how they get here. Right, wrong or what ever, they are human and are doing what they feel they need to keep their family safe. Wall or no wall, they will continue to come as long as the problems exist in those countries, and lets not forget.... at one point WE were the intruders. I was born here as were my folks, but neither of my great grandfather's were. Long before that, white people "immigrated" to this country and took it over from the American Indians. Stole it, lock stock and barrel. set up camps for them to live in, not unlike the ones now dotting the countryside near the border for the immigrants to live in. Why did white folks come here? because they were unhappy in their own countries. One of my great grandfathers came from Ireland and his family was tired of British rule. the other from France for basically the same reason as well as the constant wars. I am sure some people flocked here back then to take advantage of others and were bad people.

I am not condoning these folks sneaking across the border, but I do understand why many of them are doing it and I know better than to believe they are all criminals and/or all around bad people.