Trans Woman OK'd to Compete in Olympics, Despite Science

22 Jun 2021 08:53 #1 by Rick

History and controversy is expected to be made at the Tokyo Olympics this summer after the transgender weightlifter Laurel Hubbard was effectively guaranteed a place in the women’s super heavyweight category.

However, a number of scientific papers have recently shown people who have undergone male puberty retain significant advantages in power and strength even after taking medication to suppress their testosterone levels. Hubbard lived as a male for 35 years, and did not compete in international weightlifting. But since transitioning in 2012 she has won several elite titles.


I'm so glad my girls didn't have to compete against biological boys when they were in sports. I'm hoping feminist groups have the courage and principles to stand up to this unfair assault on female athletes.

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/05/tr...ry-at-tokyo-olympics

It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy

George Orwell

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22 Jun 2021 09:31 #2 by homeagain
In this case, I agree,once the hormones have been well established (growth wise),it is an UNBALANCED
competition.

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23 Jun 2021 08:14 #3 by FredHayek
I feel sorry for all the women who have been competing all their life for the Olympics only to lose their spot to a trans person who just had to switch genders to dominate their new field.

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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23 Jun 2021 11:49 #4 by ramage
Transgender BMX Freestyle rider Chelsea Wolfe said in a now deleted Facebook post that her goal was to "burn a US flag" on the Olympic podium.

You have to be proud of our "transgender" athletes.

Why is it that no biological females are competing in the male events?

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23 Jun 2021 12:12 #5 by Wayne Harrison
A link to the above-mentioned story.

www.foxnews.com/us/us-olympic-athlete-ch...lfe-burn-flag-podium

The post was made last year when Trump was president. The story also details Olympic policy for transgenders at the bottom.

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23 Jun 2021 12:24 #6 by ramage
If I understand your post correctly, burning the flag has nothing to do with the U.S.A., rather it is a gesture made towards whomever is the current President.

Is that what you are proffering, Wayne?

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23 Jun 2021 12:49 - 24 Jun 2021 12:08 #7 by Rick
Do you think it’s scientifically probable that an athlete that has been a male most of his life, then decides to be a woman, has physical advantages that the average woman does not have? Is it really bigoted to point out biological facts? I hope this wasn’t just a drive-by cheap shot and you plan on actually debating the topic.

It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy

George Orwell

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23 Jun 2021 15:41 #8 by ScienceChic
I think people who couldn't identify which are the sex chromosomes when handed a slide with an isolated set of them, or who can't explain the molecular and cellular effects of each of the hormones on our various tissues, shouldn't be assuming that they know the science behind trans men and women and their capabilities. These politicians who are introducing bills to limit participation are ignorant, and/or prejudiced. Just like that Ohio representative who submitted a bill that would've required women diagnosed with an ectopic pregnancy to carry it to term, regardless of the fact that doing so would absolutely ensure that both mother and fetus would die every time because it's not a viable pregnancy. He was a colossal idiot who was insisting on pushing his ideology onto others without bothering to educate himself first on the basic biology that his bill covered and the tragic results it would've had had it passed.

The human body is more fluid and malleable than you think. Take away a hormone for a length of time and it has immediate and dramatic effects on many tissues and systems. Add one, and get another significant effect. If the sports' governing bodies have created a set of guidelines that, for instance, requires hormone therapy for a minimum amount of time, then that trans person is going to physically be more like those with whom they identify than the gender with which they were born. They will be competing on a fair playing field, and it then comes down to training and talent for which every person works and possesses in differing degrees. When I ran track and cross-country in high school, there were girls on our team who could beat most of the boys in our school. Why? Training and hard work, not who had the most testosterone.

You know, the argument used to be made that blacks were somehow physically and genetically different as well, and weren't smart enough to be quarterbacks. Hell, the NFL was caught evaluating blacks on different standards for long-term concussion disabilities just this past year and forced to backtrack on their unfair practices. It's the same ignorant attitudes being displayed toward trans people that used to be shown to other races, or to women (just pick up any 19th century book or newspaper on women's health and read that we're not mentally capable of rationally decision making so we shouldn't be allowed to vote, or enduring hard physical labor because we were too weak to handle such challenges).

Instead of trying to be exclusive and discriminating, it would be far more productive, healthier for society, and fair to find ways to make competing inclusive and equitable because sports at the high school level and below should primarily focus on building self-confidence, teamwork, dedication, perseverance, and better physical health. Lord knows our nation is overweight, unhealthy and getting worse every year, why make it harder for young people to play and compete?

Trans Girls Belong on Girls’ Sports Teams
There is no scientific case for excluding them
By Jack Turban, Scientific American | on March 16, 2021

In describing the Connecticut case in the Wall Street Journal, opinion writer Abigail Shrier expressed a representative argument: when transgender girls compete on girls’ sports teams, she wrote, “[cisgender] girls can’t win.”

The opinion piece left out the fact that two days after the Connecticut lawsuit was filed by the cisgender girls’ families, one of those girls beat one of the transgender girls named in the lawsuit in a Connecticut state championship. It turns out that when transgender girls play on girls’ sports teams, cisgender girls can win.

The Olympics have had trans-inclusive policies since 2004, but a single openly transgender athlete has yet to even qualify.

The notion of transgender girls having an unfair advantage comes from the idea that testosterone causes physical changes such as an increase in muscle mass. But transgender girls are not the only girls with high testosterone levels. An estimated 10 percent of women have polycystic ovarian syndrome, which results in elevated testosterone levels. They are not banned from female sports. Transgender girls on puberty blockers, on the other hand, have negligible testosterone levels.

Plus, the athletic advantage conferred by testosterone is equivocal. As Katrina Karkazis, a senior visiting fellow and expert on testosterone and bioethics at Yale University explains, “Studies of testosterone levels in athletes do not show any clear, consistent relationship between testosterone and athletic performance. Sometimes testosterone is associated with better performance, but other studies show weak links or no links. And yet others show testosterone is associated with worse performance.” The bills’ premises lack scientific validity.


Wave Of Bills To Block Trans Athletes Has No Basis In Science, Researcher Says
By Tinbete Ermyas and Kira Wakeam, NPR | March 18, 2021

Often missing from the culture-war aspect of the debate is a focus on the type of questions that Dr. Eric Vilain has spent much of his career researching. Vilain, a pediatrician and geneticist who studies sex differences in athletes, says there are no good faith reasons to limit transgender women's participation in sports, especially at the high school level. Vilain has advised both the International Olympic Committee and the NCAA, and says these laws generally aren't based in scientific evidence, but rather "target women who have either a different biology or ... simply look different."

Vilain joined NPR's Michel Martin earlier this week for a discussion about the science surrounding trans athletes. Below are excerpts from that conversation, edited in parts for clarity and length.


Trans women targeted in sports bans, but are they really at an advantage?
There are better solutions than excluding trans women, one researcher said.
By Ashley Schwartz-Lavares, Victoria Moll-Ramirez, Kayna Whitworth, and Anthony Rivas | April 7, 2021

While more studies may be needed to determine what these solutions should be, leading sports organizations like the NCAA have issued guidance based on their understanding of the current research. In 2011, the college sports organization’s Office of Inclusion released guidance stipulating that trans women should undergo a year of testosterone suppression before joining a team.

Hecox met that requirement by taking a year of hormone replacement therapy, which helps a transgender person’s body match their gender identity more closely. Hecox said the therapy changed her athletic abilities. Along with losing muscle mass, Hecox said her stamina decreased as well.

“I could feel myself getting slower, and I was all right with that,” she said.

Hecox said she believes the hormone replacement therapy brought her athletic abilities more within the range of other female athletes. In fact, despite a rigorous training schedule provided by the school, she was not fast enough to make Boise State’s track team in 2020.


"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
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23 Jun 2021 16:10 #9 by koobookie
Thanks. I did not know that about the hormones affecting a trans person. I have a friend whose daughter is going through the process and the changes are readily apparent, so I guess I should have known. Deepening voice, weight gain, facial hair, etc. It's all a bit new to me.

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23 Jun 2021 16:10 #10 by ramage
A lengthy, well documented post. And it will take a thoughtful reply.

Can we agree that an XY chromosome defines a male and a XX chromosome defines a female?

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