Supreme Court Argues Roe

I knew when I was about 16 that if I ever wanted children, I would adopt. Counselling children reinforced that belief. I didn't get married until I was 34 and that came with a stepson. My engagement present to myself was to get my tubes tied, as I was marrying a family and if I wanted more I was committed to adoption.

Keep in mind that some women resent being second class citizens. Even Russia gave women the right to vote before the U.S. Why should those who cannot breed (men) be able to direct their inexperience and ego on women? Do men have a vested interest? Usually. Are they as committed to equality between all people? Sometimes. Do they have first hand experience with birth? No. That's the reason I have a problem with anti-abortion men.

I stand by my position that quantity is not better than quality. It is HOW you raise children, not how many. I was lucky enough to have wonderful parents. My Daddy had an 8th grade education and then went to work during the depression to help support his family, but he and Mom always devoted their lives to raising responsible kids. All three of us were successful business owners, involved in the community, and have one speeding ticket between the three of us. Not many people can say that. Maybe I didn't want kids because I wasn't sure I could raise them in the changing world and do as good a job as my parents did. I didn't know until I was in high school what Mom and Dad did without to get us kids a dime ice cream cone on Saturday at the grocery store....or a dress for the prom, or a camping vacation for a week every summer. I'd seen 46 of the lower 48 states and Eastern Canada by the time I graduated from high school, mostly at historical sites, parks and museums.

In my 74+ years, I have to say that at no time in my life have I seen less compassion and more selfishness, discrimination and hate as I see in today's world and in the country that my Daddy earned a Purple Heart defending. As much as I miss him, I'm glad he never lived to see an admitted sexual predator elected President, and the hate and discord he sowed.

I came across a line in a book I was reading last summer--a little fiction mystery, sitting out on my deck--and said "THAT'S what I want on my tombstone". It simply said "The older I got, the less I understood this world. I would have thought it would have been the other way around--". I think not understanding them is why I can still smile in the mirror in the morning and say "Yeah, you did OK."

In answer to your question on when an abortion should be allowed (not that I think men should be allowed an opinion I think it should be shortly after a woman confirms she is pregnant, is comfortable with the fact she does not wish to have the child, and before the child is viable on its own. There are women who have not even aware they are pregnant and still have time to make decisions and arrangements by 15 weeks.

As another WOW....wiser older woman,I too, elected NOT to have children,I was 26 y.o. at the time. I ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD, that if I changed my mind, I would adopt. I am now,74 y.o. and I canNOT wrap my mind around the idea we r going backwards in time to a place of darkness....secret ,UNSAFE,back alley
practices....maiming,damaging,both mentally and physically and UNCALLED FOR.. It is a woman's decision and THAT SHOULD BE MADE WITH PROFESSIONAL PHYSICIAN AND HER SOUL. jmo

ramage wrote: Please do all the research you desire, HA.
You have may it obvious that you have no opinion of viability, but have no hesitancy in commenting.

The question is very straightforward. When does life begin? Do you really need to do research on order to have a position? This in not about the beginning of Covid, rather the beginning of human life.

here is your straightforward answer......the SOUL enters into the womb at conception,the viable human
form becomes an entity when it can exist outside the mother's womb....MISCARRIAGES,what is your
understanding/definition? At what point is the miscarriage a child or a undefined collection of tissue and blood? NOW, let me take this one step further into metaphysics ....BEFORE an entity is born,it reviews the conditions that r needed to evolve it's progression/growth. THAT predicates the choices of birth circumstances. SOMETIMES,the conditions that were agreed upon are altered,thereby creating a necessary change of events....MISCARRIAGES/termination of the agreement....the SOUL then selects
another circumstance and comes thru to complete their "lessons"....

Carrie wrote: I knew when I was about 16 that if I ever wanted children, I would adopt. Counselling children reinforced that belief. I didn't get married until I was 34 and that came with a stepson. My engagement present to myself was to get my tubes tied, as I was marrying a family and if I wanted more I was committed to adoption.

Keep in mind that some women resent being second class citizens. Even Russia gave women the right to vote before the U.S. Why should those who cannot breed (men) be able to direct their inexperience and ego on women? Do men have a vested interest? Usually. Are they as committed to equality between all people? Sometimes. Do they have first hand experience with birth? No. That's the reason I have a problem with anti-abortion men.

I stand by my position that quantity is not better than quality. It is HOW you raise children, not how many. I was lucky enough to have wonderful parents. My Daddy had an 8th grade education and then went to work during the depression to help support his family, but he and Mom always devoted their lives to raising responsible kids. All three of us were successful business owners, involved in the community, and have one speeding ticket between the three of us. Not many people can say that. Maybe I didn't want kids because I wasn't sure I could raise them in the changing world and do as good a job as my parents did. I didn't know until I was in high school what Mom and Dad did without to get us kids a dime ice cream cone on Saturday at the grocery store....or a dress for the prom, or a camping vacation for a week every summer. I'd seen 46 of the lower 48 states and Eastern Canada by the time I graduated from high school, mostly at historical sites, parks and museums.

In my 74+ years, I have to say that at no time in my life have I seen less compassion and more selfishness, discrimination and hate as I see in today's world and in the country that my Daddy earned a Purple Heart defending. As much as I miss him, I'm glad he never lived to see an admitted sexual predator elected President, and the hate and discord he sowed.

I came across a line in a book I was reading last summer--a little fiction mystery, sitting out on my deck--and said "THAT'S what I want on my tombstone". It simply said "The older I got, the less I understood this world. I would have thought it would have been the other way around--". I think not understanding them is why I can still smile in the mirror in the morning and say "Yeah, you did OK."

In answer to your question on when an abortion should be allowed (not that I think men should be allowed an opinion I think it should be shortly after a woman confirms she is pregnant, is comfortable with the fact she does not wish to have the child, and before the child is viable on its own. There are women who have not even aware they are pregnant and still have time to make decisions and arrangements by 15 weeks.

Thank you Carrie, this is the kind of response I can respect because I can tell it's your true feelings and you didn't do what you did in the first post... making assumptions about why people have kids.

This is the most difficult subject to debate because it deals with individual rights as well as human morality. As a man, I can never be put in a situation where I'd have to decide whether or not I would want to end a life growing inside me, but as a human being I do believe I have a right to stand up for what I believe is morally right. I don't base my views of life on any religious belief, it is only based on what I felt when my first daughter was placed in my hands minutes after she was born. My views on abortion changed 180 degrees that day so I can understand the views of people who have never experienced that miracle.

Thank you for your well thought out post and for giving me the side of you I was looking for.

Rick--Do you honestly believe that when a baby is laid in the arms of a father not genetically connected to that child that he loves it less? I would, from a philosophical standpoint, say that he does not love it less or more, but perhaps more purely, not having put conditions on that love, be it genetics or whatever else we have led ourselves to believe. It is the conditions we put in place before giving love and respect to anyone and everyone that causes hate and violence--genetics, race, religion, sexual orientation, wealth or poverty and the list goes on. We put those false, self-created conditions on others to determine whether or not someone is worth our love and respect before even meeting someone. It is a failure in ourselves, not in the other person. It is the conditions we set that falsely let us believe that since they do not deserve our love and respect, we are free from guilt on how we treat that person. That is the excuse from insults to robbery and murder.

I did see a comment further down about the soul is put in a fetus at conception...That is a belief, not a fact. Beliefs vary with cultures and individuals and you cannot argue logic with the indoctrinated.

I also saw a comment about the pain an abortion causes to the fetus. They need to do their research on when the fetus reaches a point where the brain and nervous system are developed enough to feel pain I would purport that more pain is caused individuals in verbal and physical abuse, violence and murder after birth, in this world, than before.

This will be my last comment: If everyone gave love and respect to everyone, rather than making nebulous conditions on who is deserving, it would be a better world. I am as good and valuable a person as any man, of any race, of any religion. I also believe that we are caretakers of the earth and other creatures and should do so responsibly. Yes, I believe in the right to have an abortion. If you don't, don't have one. Don't force your questionable values on others in a different position. Yes, I believe that we are caretakers of other species. That does not mean I don't believe in hunting and harvesting RESPONSIBLY. Yes, I believe in individual rights, But: your rights stop where my nose begins. I also believe is legal punishment for not heeding that boundary. Take down your nebulous pre-conditions on the value of others. You'd be amazed how it would improve your life and the world.

Sorry for the rambling, but wanted to put a few points out there before the pre-conditions of others misunderstood some of my comments.

YOUR forward thinking thought processes (laid down in an intelligent post) our very similar to mine,Carrie.
HOWEVER,I do take exception to the word indoctrinated. The word implies brainwashed and I am far from being a "sheeple". A metaphysical POV is the only thing that makes ANY sense to me ,in this,otherwise,
fubared world. It has been beneficial,thru the years,in giving me an understanding of humankind....our species does not think proactively,but rather re-actively. THAT is a struggle for me,as I operate proactively,when the rest of the world does not....I DO NOT FIT INTO THE MOLD. Never have,

JUNE is the judge's timeline for a decision. REMEMBER WHEN 'K' STATED HE DID NOT THINK R.V.W.
WAS CORRECTLY DECIDED.?......but stated in would follow legal precedence,at his hearing.We known NOW.....HE WAS BLOWING SMOKE.

Carrie wrote: Rick--Do you honestly believe that when a baby is laid in the arms of a father not genetically connected to that child that he loves it less?

Where in the world did you get that idea from? I didn't say anything about that miracle being connected to me genetically. ANYONE who holds a baby that was just born would feel that and know what I was talking about. When you experience that, you realize that talks about "clumps of cells" are just ways to dehumanize humans who don't have a voice yet. There's always pushback about pregnant women being shown high resolution imaging when considering abortion and that's something I can not understand. I believe many opinions about abortion would change if those people experienced a birth or just saw early 4D imaging of what is clearly a living human being. If after being fully informed, a woman still wants to terminate that life, then she has that right to do so under whatever law her state has established.

As with every issue, I believe more information and experience is a good thing and helps people make the best decisions.

homeagain wrote: JUNE is the judge's timeline for a decision. REMEMBER WHEN 'K' STATED HE DID NOT THINK R.V.W.
WAS CORRECTLY DECIDED.?......but stated in would follow legal precedence,at his hearing.We known NOW.....HE WAS BLOWING SMOKE.

HERE is an interesting piece of the present p.o.s.......THEN AND NOW

www.politico.com/news/2021/12/05/supreme...tion-comments-523763

A new poll says a majority of Americans are fine with a 15 week limit for abortions.