Los Angeles became the largest city yet to boycott Arizona

OK, so we had a really good debate and discussion going here and it kind of stalled. Yes LopingAlong you did give a very thorough answer. Rackdoc that was a great post!! And you totally nailed it on the head!

Someone needs to explain this to me. Today Obama came out and talked about this law and illegal immigration. Here is what he said. He wants all here to be fined and pay back taxes if they are to stay. But he thinks they should have to go to the back of the line to be fair. So how does he have it both ways? He talks big with the back of the line statement but in order to do that we would have to deport them back to Mexico to come here legally. But yet he said he is against that. So which way is it with him?

And I had someone the other day tell me that they are already here and we need them for labor so we should just let them stay and make them legal. Isn't that kind of like telling a burglar that hey since you are already in my house, I will forgive you and let you stay and pay for everything for you and go ahead and take what you want? I am not understanding how rewarding someone for doing something illegal will deter others from doing the same thing rather than standing in line and doing things legally? Can anyone explain that?

LopingAlong wrote: Did I anser your question? I'm not sure. No, I don't konw of another nation that 'allows' the things you list. And why should America give up their own jobs and support this? Well, I see us out-sourcing all kinds of jobs. Do we even have any textile mills or other manufacturing in the vein that we used to? No. We send it to places like Indonesia, China, Taiwan and why? Because it is about money. Money runs the show--make more by sending the jobs to other countries that Americans won't do or can't do since they aren't offered on our soil anymore. With the Mexican population, it's just that they come here to do what we can't send out--picking crops, cleaning stalls, etc. Not sure if that answers your question either, but I'm trying. Ask again if I didn't and word it as though you're talking to a 4 year old.

And LopingAlong, I need to read your long post and break it down. I need to run now so will address that post later. It was very well thought out though.

I'm with Rockdoc on this one. Both of my parents came through the front door. There was a time after WWII that the US was not accepting residents from Germany, so he waited until he could come here legally. My dad got his US citizenship on a US Army base in Japan after being drafted for Korea.

So a new poll came out that shows 71% in Arizona approve of this law. If the state wants it, and the citizens of the state overwhelmingly want it then why does Obama want to stop it? .................nevermind. I answered my own question.

chainsawbob wrote: We can solve the problem quickly and with very little cost.
1. Task the credit agency's (Chiltons, TRW, etc.) with verifying the employment eligibility of each and every worker. (This data already exists for most legal residents and citizens)
2. Get a job---company spends $10.00 and gets a clearance from them. A week should be enough time.
Not cleared??? 30 days to prove eligibility.
3. Company has illegals working. Owner or officer goes to JAIL, no fines, no plea bargains, JAIL! 30 days for up to 3, 10 days each for more.
4. Now there are many more available to pick crops etc. Farmer needs 50 people for 20 days to harvest, OK he gets permit for 1000 man-days and pays $XX.00 per man-day tax and pays labor cash. No brain damage no paperwork.
5. I don't like it, I think it is a slap in the face to every legal immigrant, but we must allow for those long-time illegals. They can apply for legal status if and when they have come clean for seven years back taxes. (just like you or I are liable for) and have no substantial criminal record.

This is at best a sticky situation and there is no good answer. I think this is the best we could do without "papers please"

Wow! There are some great ideas here, thank you for posting. I think the solutions you outline would have enough merit to further examine. You are fair and that is a good thing IMO. I like what you say and will dwell on them to talk with you about more.

Rockdoc, I, too worked from a very young age. At age 8, my parents bought a riding stables and my father was like your dad--first generation immigrant. He came here when he was 20, married my American Iowa-bred mom and started a family kind of not in that order. He was legal, spoke English and worked at many jobs too, from washing dishes to welding to owning a car lot to owning a feed store and stables. Anyway, he couldn't afford to pay anyone to work for him, but he had us 4 kids so we were it. I was the oldest and my brother was 7. We ran the front end and rode the horses to make them 'customer safe' on the rental string. The two younger ones cleaned corrals and watered and fed horses. They rode too, but were so small...

That would never happen today. No way that was legal. Long hours, work that got harder the older we got. Thing is, I could count change back at age 7 and there are plenty of high school grads that wouldn't have a clue as to how to do so if they didn't have the computer on the cash register to tell them how much to give. I guess the point is that everyone wants a shake, a chance at the all American Dream. How it's done sometimes isn't the best way, but it seems the only way at the time.

LopingAlong wrote: I guess the point is that everyone wants a shake, a chance at the all American Dream. How it's done sometimes isn't the best way, but it seems the only way at the time.

Question for you or anyone who wants to answer. I agree that this is the greatest nation on earth and that everyone deserves a chance at the American Dream. But as an example, lets say there is a farm or factory that needs 1000 workers. If you have 1000 people from Mexico waiting in line and going through the process the way our nation and any nation demads that you do by following our laws just waiting to get those jobs and start living the American Dream, and then you have 1000 Mexicans who snuck across the border illegally and basically cut in line if you will to take the jobs that those who have been waiting in line and are doing things the right way. Which ones deserve those 1000 jobs and what should you do with the ones who cut in line and took them illegally? Send them home or let them stay, give them amnesty, let them keep the job, and set an example that breaking the law pays off in our country, more than following our laws.

I do not at all buy the premise that they are only taking jobs that no Americans want. In this economy, I have seen people take jobs for very little money just to eat. But not as many jobs are there if you allow them to be rewarded for breaking our laws. I have worked a conveyor belt in a field sorting out rocks and dirt clumps from potatos for very little pay, and I know that there are Americans who would love that opportunity to be able to feed their families.

The Arizona law simply says "illegal" is illegal and asks local law enforcement to uphold the immigration laws of the United States. It prohibits racial profiling and allows police to ask for immigration papers ONLY if they stop them for something else and ONLY if they suspect they are in the country illegally.

Here's an explanation of the law from the guy who wrote it:

http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?Sectio ... leID=80982

When the Mexican president was in Washington he was interviewed on FOX News. He complained about the "racist" Arizona law. When asked if Mexican police stop people on the street and ask for their papers he conceeded they do. He also conceeded if they are found not to be in Mexico legally, they are shipped back to their country (usually some country south of Mexico).

Mexico does it but they have a problem with us doing the same thing?

WayneHarrison wrote: The Arizona law simply says "illegal" is illegal and asks local law enforcement to uphold the immigration laws of the United States. It prohibits racial profiling and allows police to ask for immigration papers ONLY if they stop them for something else and ONLY if they suspect they are in the country illegally.

Here's an explanation of the law from the guy who wrote it:

http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?Sectio ... leID=80982

When the Mexican president was in Washington he was interviewed on FOX News. He complained about the "racist" Arizona law. When asked if Mexican police stop people on the street and ask for their papers he conceeded they do. He also conceeded if they are found not to be in Mexico legally, they are shipped back to their country (usually some country south of Mexico).

Mexico does it but they have a problem with us doing the same thing?

Exactly! I don't understand why if you are white and they stop you in Mexico and ask you for papers and if they find out you are there illegally, they will send you home, and that is totally fine. But if you do the same thing in America with people from Mexico, it is racist. Why the double standard?

And again, if I am in another country and the police ask me for my passport, can I scream racism and get all sorts of TV air time? Or is that just the bleeding heart political correctness gone mad in America?