Los Angeles became the largest city yet to boycott Arizona

I think we all need to stand behind Arizona and support them and if cities like Los Angeles are going to boycott Arizona for supporting the laws in this country, then we need to boycott cities like Los Angeles. We need to find a list of product produced in Los Angeles or California to not purchase. Also I think we should stop all travel to that city till they come to their senses and start supporting America again.

http://cbs2.com/local/Los.Angeles.City.2.1689109.html

Surprise! I agree with LA. To treat people in this way is simply barbaric.

We are all of migrated-into-America stock. What really needs to happen is that those who are here illegally must be brought into a legal standing--whatever that entails--and newcomers need to go through the proper channels to become legal immigrants or workers or visitors withoug crawling under fences. Those who choose not to go through the hoops required would then be deported and they can come back when they follow procedure. (I'm not worried about how much this would cost at this point, just talking about what I think would work)

Actually, if would get rid of the border entirely and merge the two nations, that would be even better. (riiiight)
Integration, not segregation could go a long ways toward peace, better laws, improved relations all the way around. Borders north and south. Sooner we understnad that people are people and sharing is better than hoarding; this world will be a whole lot better in my opinion.

....Yeah, I know. Utopia. It's these darn tie-dye shirts I wear, I tell ya! (emoticon: d*** hippie holding up a peace sign)

LopingAlong wrote: Surprise! I agree with LA. To treat people in this way is simply barbaric.

We are all of migrated-into-America stock. What really needs to happen is that those who are here illegally must be brought into a legal standing--whatever that entails--and newcomers need to go through the proper channels to become legal immigrants or workers or visitors withoug crawling under fences. Those who choose not to go through the hoops required would then be deported and they can come back when they follow procedure. (I'm not worried about how much this would cost at this point, just talking about what I think would work)

Actually, if would get rid of the border entirely and merge the two nations, that would be even better. (riiiight)
Integration, not segregation could go a long ways toward peace, better laws, improved relations all the way around. Borders north and south. Sooner we understnad that people are people and sharing is better than hoarding; this world will be a whole lot better in my opinion.

....Yeah, I know. Utopia. It's these darn tie-dye shirts I wear, I tell ya! (emoticon: d*** hippie holding up a peace sign)

OK, please answer this. To treat people what way? What is so barbaric about asking for ID and if you are an American citizen when you are stopped for another offense? Is it then considered barbaric when they ask for my license and proof of insurance when I get pulled over? Or is it only bad if you are of Hispanic decent when you get asked that. Is there a double standard? And if you are in another country without any papers, you are arrested or sent home too. They ask you if for your passport and if you are a citizen there. So why is it barbaric that America does that? I am still not understanding what everyone is so upset about.

And as far as our forefathers immigrating here. They all had to stand in a long line, wait, become documented and do things legally before they were a citizen. There is no comparison to sneaking across our border adn getting fake ID's.

And I am not trying to be snarky or sarcastic. I really am trying to understand what people are so upset about. Why it is so wrong for us to ask for ID's from everyone and if they are here illegally without paperwork, just as in any other nation in the world, you are arrested or sent home.

LopingAlong wrote: --and newcomers need to go through the proper channels to become legal immigrants or workers or visitors withoug crawling under fences. Those who choose not to go through the hoops required would then be deported and they can come back when they follow procedure. (I'm not worried about how much this would cost at this point, just talking about what I think would work)

And this is exactly what our law states. So why is it so barbaric that Arizona wants to do exactly what you just wrote? What are you so upset about? This is what Arizona is doing. It is just the media that is trying to make this out to be a civil rights or racial issue. It is not! It is a legal issue which you agree with.

And one more question that you can try and answer. I have yet to ever get an answer to this question in well over 2 years no matter how many times I ask it.

What other nation in the world will allow you to walk across their border with no papers and no ID, and take a job away from one of their citizens just because you will agree to get paid less. Also you will expect to not have to get insurance and yet you will get free medical care, free food for your children in their schools, assistance for your children to attend one of their colleges, and housing assistance for you to get a place to live. On top of that you expect to be taught everything in your language and you expect them to start printing everything in both their language and yours so you can understand it. And don't forget, you want them to fly your flag along with theres and have a holiday for your country where you will be offended if they try and display their national flag during that holiday. Also you want the right to protest their laws when they try and enforce them to send you home. And all of this will be paid for by the citizens of that nations' tax dollars.

If you can't answer this question then why should America and Americans have to give up jobs, and support all of this with our tax dollars when no other nation in the world allows it?

The Viking wrote: And one more question that you can try and answer. I have yet to ever get an answer to this question in well over 2 years no matter how many times I ask it.

What other nation in the world will allow you to walk across their border with no papers and no ID, and take a job away from one of their citizens just because you will agree to get paid less. Also you will expect to not have to get insurance and yet you will get free medical care, free food for your children in their schools, assistance for your children to attend one of their colleges, and housing assistance for you to get a place to live. On top of that you expect to be taught everything in your language and you expect them to start printing everything in both their language and yours so you can understand it. And don't forget, you want them to fly your flag along with theres and have a holiday for your country where you will be offended if they try and display their national flag during that holiday. Also you want the right to protest their laws when they try and enforce them to send you home. And all of this will be paid for by the citizens of that nations' tax dollars.

If you can't answer this question then why should America and Americans have to give up jobs, and support all of this with our tax dollars when no other nation in the world allows it?

Ok, I'll try. I don't always see things in the box the way most people do so bear with me... And it'll be long as I try to think this through and get it down on paper logically. I'm answering not because I think I'll change your opinion but rater to clarify it for myself.

First, I do not agree that we allow the Mexican peoples to walk over whenever they want and take jobs away from Americans. I do know that jobs are done by Mexicans that no American would want to do and have known Mexicans who have come across illegally, then get 'caught' so they get the free ride home. When I asked them why they didn't come across legally, they tell me that they didn't have the paper work--this is only for the people I've asked personally, not for every single Mexican that is here, ok? For whatever reason, but usually, they don't have a birth certificate or the proper documentation. They are usually very poor and very willing to work (I am talking about people I've met personally) and will do what American people don't want to--like pick lettuce or strawberries in blazing hot weather or rain, bent over for 10 hours a day for very little pay, while they live in a cardboard hut against the side of a hillside. I do not see many (none with my own eyes) jobs lost to Mexicans in particular that Americans would do. The Mexicans take the jobs like cleaning horse manure and picking crops because the jobs are available and they do work for less pay than a kid from Evergreen would even Think about settling for.

So is the problem the Mexican workers or the American employers?

I think it's about the almighty dollar. More money for each of them--the American employer and the Mexican migrant worker--they each make more doing it this way than if a young man or woman from LA, Phoenix, Denver or San Francisco takes that same job. In general, the hungry person works more readily for less than the priveledged wanting to maintain the standard of living provided by their parents.

I am not sure when or how the shift happens where the demand to have 'their' holidays observed and their language spoken takes place. I know it does, I'm just not sure how that begins so not sure how to fix the issues. There is a separate-ness that exists between most races; Americans with Mexicans with Canadians with French with Germans. We each view our own race as being the 'best' one and the 'right' one....kind of like religion. Or sports teams. I think that is part of the problem, we forget to view each other as people who look different but who are driven by the same desires--to protect, feed, clothe and take care of our families. I'd venture to say that if asked, most people, regardless of race or origin of country want the same things--the freedom to work, provide and care for their families. (there are always those who want a free ride, but that is not a race thing, that's an individual thing so I'm not only talking in Broad, broad generalities here, ok?)

Back to your question b/c I wandered off track here. Why do the Mexicans (in particular since that's who we're talking about, but really it's anyone) expect to have signs, schools, etc in their language? Because it's the one they understand. Many times, people in a strange place need time to learn the new language. Some people choose never to do so, I understand that too, but generally, if given time, they will adapt and learn the language predominantly spoken. It is the interim period of time that merits having two languages. I'm not saying that is right or that I agree with it. For example, we travel to Mexico and other Spanish-speaking destinations. I do not expect all of the indigenous people to speak English so I am improving my pathetic attempt at Spanish even now. But, I also have the luxery of having a computer and time to devote to this 'sport'.

What if I were hungry, living below poverty level in a 3rd world country? What if I had kids to feed and no education and there was talk, always talk about a place I could go and work and get paid 3-10 times what I could make in my own country? Would I want to go there? Yes! Would I first learn the language? NO. I'd go and work as much as I could to provide for my family and then I'd learn the language as I was able. My first obligation, desire and focus would be to take care of my family. Period.

What happens, is sometimes, the American system of Welfare (which, IMO, pays people to reproduce but that's a whole nother topic) becomes very attractive to people who come here and may not be the gung-ho worker bee sort of human. There are plenty of people world-wide who want a free ride and so, yes, we, with our support systems in place, do get taken advantage of. So what is the answer? To start pulling over everyone who looks like a foreigner and demanding to see their documents? I suppose that's one way of doing it and yes, if they are pulled over for any reason other than the color of their skin, hair and eyes, then it has merit, but c'mon. Can you see this in Texas? Oklahoma? Any state in the south? We'd be back to civil unrest in a NY minute. Because then, people of color, or facial structure or accent are targets. You wear traditional Indian clothing? Guess what? You are targeted at every corner and hounded like the proverbial racoon on the run. That is why I am upset at this law. At the injustice of it. It's wrong to target people based on racial profiling.

Did I anser your question? I'm not sure. No, I don't konw of another nation that 'allows' the things you list. And why should America give up their own jobs and support this? Well, I see us out-sourcing all kinds of jobs. Do we even have any textile mills or other manufacturing in the vein that we used to? No. We send it to places like Indonesia, China, Taiwan and why? Because it is about money. Money runs the show--make more by sending the jobs to other countries that Americans won't do or can't do since they aren't offered on our soil anymore. With the Mexican population, it's just that they come here to do what we can't send out--picking crops, cleaning stalls, etc. Not sure if that answers your question either, but I'm trying. Ask again if I didn't and word it as though you're talking to a 4 year old.

We can solve the problem quickly and with very little cost.
1. Task the credit agency's (Chiltons, TRW, etc.) with verifying the employment eligibility of each and every worker. (This data already exists for most legal residents and citizens)
2. Get a job---company spends $10.00 and gets a clearance from them. A week should be enough time.
Not cleared??? 30 days to prove eligibility.
3. Company has illegals working. Owner or officer goes to JAIL, no fines, no plea bargains, JAIL! 30 days for up to 3, 10 days each for more.
4. Now there are many more available to pick crops etc. Farmer needs 50 people for 20 days to harvest, OK he gets permit for 1000 man-days and pays $XX.00 per man-day tax and pays labor cash. No brain damage no paperwork.
5. I don't like it, I think it is a slap in the face to every legal immigrant, but we must allow for those long-time illegals. They can apply for legal status if and when they have come clean for seven years back taxes. (just like you or I are liable for) and have no substantial criminal record.

This is at best a sticky situation and there is no good answer. I think this is the best we could do without "papers please"

I have no sympathy on this issue at all. I am a 1953 immigrant from Germany. We arrived here just as poor as those people crossing the border. It took mother 5 long years to get her immigration visa. It took her 7 years to take up the challenge of learning enough English to pass the immigration test. I started school knowing only the words 'I don't know". No one ever thought, much less expected, I be taught in German as opposed to English. In fact, I was put back in first grade rather than third because I knew no English.
Working:
Father took me out on jobs to work, digging ditches, foundations, doing masonry, bailing hay etc. from the time I was 12 or even younger. Life was a struggle. We took any job we could get to make ends meet, we worked for less pay because some pay was better than none and felt it necessary to learn the language because we elected to come here. Dad was an architect, but throughout most of my youth, he worked at menial jobs. Mother was a professional photographer. She gave that up and worked as a maid to help make ends meet. There was no job beneath our dignity. The bottom line was we had a dream to improve our lives by coming to America and our attitude was to adopt to the laws and culture rather than having the America and Americans adopt to us. You can make a million excuses why you can't do one thing or another. All that is just what it is an excuse not to do what you know is right. Get the damn paper work before you come to the boarder. If it takes you one or two or even ten years it does not matter. Just be legal. And then when you get here make a concerted effort to adapt to your chosen country, the land of opportunity today. If you wish, you can live in a community where your native tongue is spoken, but do not expect that Americans pay homage to your language and culture. If you want that so bad, go back to where you came from. And if I go to your country, I will make a concerted effort to speak your language, honor your customs (even if everything inside me rails against it), and abide by the laws of you country.

It is absolutely absurd to justify the presence of illegal immigrants who play the poor me card. I can empathize with their plight, with their desire to earn money so they can take care of their families, but I will never condone them being here illegally. Arizona has it right. If I go there, they may even ask me for ID given my accent. It is the country's right to do so. The same happens to me everywhere I go in the world. I need to demonstrate to authorities I have the required paperwork. If I didn't I'd be detained right there on the spot.

The only fix is to round all illegal aliens up, demand they get legal and if they can not or want not, send them back.

LA is out to lunch. They have lost site of right and wrong. Just because you managed to evade the boarder patrol does not entitle you to stay here. Boycott LA until they see la Luz (the light). :bash