If the election were held today, who would you vote for?

I picked Christie

outdoor338 wrote: I picked Christie

Christie isn't on the list....

Christie said emphatically that he will not run in 2012, I like him and believe is not a choice.
Now explain how Obama is kicking butt in this poll?

Something the Dog Said wrote:

Grady wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:

Pineguy wrote: Romney is actually the only governor in American history ever to impose an individual health insurance mandate on his citizens. And an individual mandate, of course, is at the heart of Obama's reform package.

Nor is the mandate the only common ground between RomneyCare and ObamaCare; the Massachusetts plan that Romney signed into law in 2006 is essentially the blueprint for Obama's plan. Both rely on the same basic formula: a requirement that everyone purchase insurance and government assistance for those who can't afford it.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/ ... _hypocrisy

But it is ok since he has an R after his name.

No because it's a state issue. Where in the constitution does it state that the Federal government can force me to buy anything.

Article 1, Section 8

Nope Nothing in there about the Federal Government having the power to force any citizen to buy any product or service.

Section 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

ren, I am just being a pain for pine..

outdoor338 wrote: ren, I am just being a pain for pine..

Oh...... :Whistle

Grady wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:

Grady wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:

Pineguy wrote: Romney is actually the only governor in American history ever to impose an individual health insurance mandate on his citizens. And an individual mandate, of course, is at the heart of Obama's reform package.

Nor is the mandate the only common ground between RomneyCare and ObamaCare; the Massachusetts plan that Romney signed into law in 2006 is essentially the blueprint for Obama's plan. Both rely on the same basic formula: a requirement that everyone purchase insurance and government assistance for those who can't afford it.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/ ... _hypocrisy

But it is ok since he has an R after his name.

No because it's a state issue. Where in the constitution does it state that the Federal government can force me to buy anything.

Article 1, Section 8

Nope Nothing in there about the Federal Government having the power to force any citizen to buy any product or service.

Section 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Absolutely there is:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

As numerous Supreme Court decisions have found, the general Welfare is whatever Congress decides. If Congress decides that health insurance for all is in the general Welfare, then so be it. Clearly Congress has the power to impose taxes on the general population and to grant tax relief for those who wisely choose to have health insurance.

Something the Dog Said wrote:
As numerous Supreme Court decisions have found, the general Welfare is whatever Congress decides. If Congress decides that health insurance for all is in the general Welfare, then so be it. Clearly Congress has the power to impose taxes on the general population and to grant tax relief for those who wisely choose to have health insurance.

That is such a stretch. I still don't see where congress can force anyone to purchase a commodity. If you think they can, would they also be able to force every American to purchase a vehicle, whether or not you need one?

RenegadeCJ wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:
As numerous Supreme Court decisions have found, the general Welfare is whatever Congress decides. If Congress decides that health insurance for all is in the general Welfare, then so be it. Clearly Congress has the power to impose taxes on the general population and to grant tax relief for those who wisely choose to have health insurance.

That is such a stretch. I still don't see where congress can force anyone to purchase a commodity. If you think they can, would they also be able to force every American to purchase a vehicle, whether or not you need one?

Clearly the Founding Fathers believed that Congress had that power. Those very gentlemen in the Second Congress passed the Militia Act of 1792 that required every able bodied man between the ages of 18 and 45 purchase a variety of commodities.

I. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act. And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved. That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack.

Ah...so they had to have those items. Doesn't say they had to purchase them...each year, or be fined. They could get one handed down, barter for one, or already have one.

The Obamanation healthcare plan requires you PURCHASE one every year. If I get free healthcare from my friend, who is a doc...that doesn't count. I have to purchase insurance.

I believe it will be found to be unconstitutional....