Science Chic wrote: They are investing in renewable energy in order to make money on it, first, and because they see the direction the future of their country is going and can't afford to go 100% fossil fuel.
Let me translate: ..........because they see the direction the future of "the United States" is going ......
Science Chic wrote: ........it just so happens that their 20% production is bigger than most country's total production so it makes an impact...
Let me translate:..........it just so happens that their "daydream" is dreamed bigger than most countries' total production..........
It is like an adolescent daydream about what they want to become, someday. 99% never acheive that dream or come anywhere near it. So we should not start bashing the U.S. because we have not spouted a bigger daydream than they.
I'm not trying to argue with you. I am trying to understand what your initial post was drawn from. That was why I said, it would have been nice if you posted the links to where your conclusions came from.
I didn't need the attacks from that bitc= LJ, who is nothing but a freak any way IMO. I was like I always do trying to read your post and follow up on it. If you are looking for an argument, you came to the right place.
BTW, you might attribute some of this to the current administration's lack of leadership and it's excessive spending and taxation. U.S. companies are assisting China, and is becoming the hot spot for investors in this industry. It's kind of like the fact that we can't drill offshore of the U.S. but foreign Corporations can. Go Figure!!!
Not sure what this article has to do with the discussion of China expanding their renewable energy to 500 gigawatts, while it is doubtful that the US will even reach 16 gigawatts?
"Remember to always be yourself. Unless you can be batman. Then always be batman." Unknown
major bean wrote: The Chinese have accomplished nothing to date. This is all opium pipe dreams so far.
We can congratulate them after they can point to a record of accomplishments. Anyone can ramble about their "dream home" or "phantasy football".
major bean wrote:
Science Chic wrote: They are investing in renewable energy in order to make money on it, first, and because they see the direction the future of their country is going and can't afford to go 100% fossil fuel.
Let me translate: ..........because they see the direction the future of "the United States" is going ......
Science Chic wrote: ........it just so happens that their 20% production is bigger than most country's total production so it makes an impact...
Let me translate:..........it just so happens that their "daydream" is dreamed bigger than most countries' total production..........
It is like an adolescent daydream about what they want to become, someday. 99% never acheive that dream or come anywhere near it. So we should not start bashing the U.S. because we have not spouted a bigger daydream than they.
Uh, no. From my references:
With over 4,000 miles of track laid domestically, China is the leader in high-speed rail. As for wind, China installed the largest number of wind turbines in the world in 2009, expanding its wind capacity by 13 GW. By contrast, the U.S. only expanded its capacity by 10 GW in 2009.
China's ascent to the top of the list for supercomputing speed reveals a new front in this race. Last month China's Tianhe-1A, developed by Chinese defense researchers, became the world's fastest supercomputer, with a performance level of 2.57 petaflop/s (quadrillions of calculations per second, for all the geeks in our audience, based on a standard test), substantially eclipsing the U.S. DOE's Cray XT5 "Jaguar" system at Oak Ridge national labs in Tennessee, which runs at 1.75 petaflop/s. Third place is also held by a Chinese computer.
Supercomputers may seem long way from grid-competitive solar panels, long-range electric car batteries, or other cleantech gizmos, but advanced computational simulation is the keystone of most leading-edge scientific research, including nuclear energy, nanotech and materials science, proteomics and other advanced biotech applications.
China has deployed the world's first Ultra High Voltage AC and DC lines -- including one capable of delivering 6.4 gigawatts to Shanghai from a hydroelectric plant nearly 1300 miles away in southwestern China. These lines are more efficient and carry much more power over longer distances than those in the United States.
China has more than 30 nuclear power plants under construction, more than any other country in the world, and is actively researching fourth generation nuclear power technologies.
China is installing wind power at a faster rate than any nation in the world, and manufactures 40 percent of the world's solar photovoltaic (PV) systems. It is home to three of the world's top ten wind turbine manufacturers and five of the top ten silicon-based PV manufacturers in the world.
These aren't pledges, or pipe-dreams, they've already done it. And are investing more than we are, in technology and research, and have defined more aggressive goals to achieve than we have. The writing's on the wall.
Nmysys - I, and most liberals I personally know, do blame this administration, and all of the previous ones back to Ford, for our lack of leadership on this subject. Excessive spending and taxation have nothing to do with our pandering to fossil fuel producers and continuing to suck the teat of a non-renewable, polluting resource that we've been paying our enemies way too much for.
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
China has more than 30 nuclear power plants under construction, more than any other country in the world, and is actively researching fourth generation nuclear power technologies.
China is installing wind power at a faster rate than any nation in the world, and manufactures 40 percent of the world's solar photovoltaic (PV) systems. It is home to three of the world's top ten wind turbine manufacturers and five of the top ten silicon-based PV manufacturers in the world.
These aren't pledges, or pipe-dreams, they've already done it. And are investing more than we are, in technology and research, and have defined more aggressive goals to achieve than we have. The writing's on the wall.
Nmysys - I, and most liberals I personally know, do blame this administration, and all of the previous ones back to Ford, for our lack of leadership on this subject. Excessive spending and taxation have nothing to do with our pandering to fossil fuel producers and continuing to suck the teat of a non-renewable, polluting resource that we've been paying our enemies way too much for.
We agree on something again. Marvelous!!
I agree that other past administrations also are at fault. We haven't approved a new refinery application even since 1973.
For some strange reason that I cannot understand, since the end of WWII our primary mission seems to be to prop up everyone else in the world instead of ourselves. We have given every industry to first Japan, then S. Korea, and now to China, and have outsourced damn near everything else. Somewhere in the equation their figures the Unions. The overall picture looks pretty bleak to me when viewed as a mosaic.
Nmysys wrote: We haven't approved a new refinery application even since 1973.
That's because they have been expanding current oil refinery capacity or squeezing more out of each barrel of crude. While the number of refineries has gone down, the total output has increased.
This 2008 article says it's tough to find investors ready to risk $2.5 billion in a volatile industry :
Not only do we have more nameplate refining capacity now than we did when we had a lot more refineries, that capacity is able to extract far more gasoline per barrel of crude input and handle far lower quality crudes.
It's also worth mentioning that the refining industry had abysmal returns for many decades, and existing refineries could be bought for pennies on the dollar of replacement cost. Why would anyone build a new refinery if they could buy the same capacity at 10 cents on the dollar?
I finally agree with some of what you say Wayne, with a caveat. Since we aren't allowed to drill offshore or in Alaska, we really don't need more refineries, but that is the result of an administration that is holding us back. With that result, how about addressing Nuclear Power? We can help other countries develop it or allow our enemies to have it, but we can't.
Something the Dog Said wrote: China announced plans to have 500 gigawatts in renewable energy within 9 years. In comparison, the US might have 16 gigawatts although that is currently being filibustered in the Senate by Republicans. While China overall is the leading country in greenhouse emissions, it is aggressively pursuing plans to reduce that. Even that is misleading, as when compared on a per capita basis, it's emissions are 1/4 that of US.
China also has become the leading manufacturer of renewable energy equipment as well.
No surprise to me. If we paid people 10 cents/hr to build and install renewable energy, it would be affordable for us as well. Problem is, we can't seem to get people to work on these projects for that cheap.
They also worry about real things like actual pollution...not the "CO2" fake pollution. A friend of mine does business there...says you can sometimes cut the air with a knife it is so polluted.
Too bad future generations aren't here to see all the great things we are spending their $$ on!!
