What if you are BOTH wrong. I believe there can be a God, without Heaven and Hell. One can have faith in a supreme being without believing the God of the Trinity.
Remember that I happen to be Jewish, not Christian. I use that picture because most of the Atheists and Agnostics I have known can relate to the image. There is no Hell in the Old Testament. I don't believe in a vengeful God of the Trinity.
Continue to do what is right and moral, living up to my standards for myself. Compassion and empathy does not come from a belief in God, it comes from within oneself.
I, personally believe that moral compass you are referring to in your self, comes from some religious training or exposure before you made the conscious decision that you didn't believe in God. Just my opinion, but to have that compass, you had to have had some if not all of it instilled in you somewhere, somehow, even if you deny it. Right and wrong comes from somewhere, and in my mind it comes from the Ten Commandments, though in other belief systems it has its roots in similar style written or unwritten laws.
Nmysys wrote: The only response I can give to this age-old question is, What if there is?
I see no apparent harm in your respecting our belief and faith, and our respecting your freedom to choose not to have faith in a supreme being.
In the Army I served with men from all walks of life, some with faith, others with none. I say this only as an observation, that I have seen men facing imminent death, mortally wounded, calling out to God. You can reply in any fashion you wish, but you will not shake my belief, and I know that you feel as strongly that you think you know differently.
I will post this again, in case you haven't seen it!
DaffyDick wrote: What if you found out that there was no God? What would you do, if you learned that everything you had been told about religion is a lie?
How would you feel if you learned that mankind is nothing more than a survival of the species, and that mankind is here by chance, and not by the grace of God?
wouldnt matter. i believe there is a god. i will continue to move one foot forward in front of the other to work with those in my community - people helping people.
bumper sticker - honk if you will pay my mortgage
"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." attributed to Margaret Thatcher
"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." Thomas Jefferson
I will post this again. It is such a beautiful video, no matter what you believe. Please watch and if you still believe that this all came from the Universe farting, then I really feel sorry for you. To me, people who don't believe in God, don't want to have to accept Personal Responsibility for their actions and thus don't ever want to have to worry about the ramifications of them. Like Nymsys said, nothing you can say will shake my faith, nor will I ever live as though there are no consequenses for my actions.
DaffyDick wrote: What if you found out that there was no God? What would you do, if you learned that everything you had been told about religion is a lie?
How would you feel if you learned that mankind is nothing more than a survival of the species, and that mankind is here by chance, and not by the grace of God?
wouldnt matter. i believe there is a god. i will continue to move one foot forward in front of the other to work with those in my community - people helping people.
DaffyDick wrote: What if you found out that there was no God? What would you do, if you learned that everything you had been told about religion is a lie?
How would you feel if you learned that mankind is nothing more than a survival of the species, and that mankind is here by chance, and not by the grace of God?
And for those of you who don't believe in God, what stops you from just going out and taking what you want and doing whatever you please, as in the long run it won't matter anyway right? What are the consequenses of your actions during your life if you just end up as dust anyway? Why not go out in a selfish blaze of glory appeasing all your worldly and physical desires? What will it hurt? When your dead you won't care and it won't matter correct?
cydl wrote: Organized religion has two purposes:
1. Keep people ignorant and frightened
2. Keep the power brokers in power
Sort of like the media!
Actually, I think the bible did have a purpose at one time. It did keep order before there were laws. For example, the ten commandments did keep some from doing some horrible things. And notice the bible has alot about sex before marriage. That kept women from becoming pregnant at a young age. Culture makes a huge difference in what we do.
Just to clarify. My belief system is complex. The bible does not mean a ton to me but I understand the confusion on after life. It would take hours to explain what I really believe. I only tell people I am close to. I am still figuring it out. But for the first time in my life I entertained the idea that there may not be one. I don't know for sure one way or the other but entertaining the idea for the first time in 46 years gave me a perspective and understanding of both sides of the debate. And it scared me. My brain did not want to go there. And I tend to still believe there is a god, but not just that I have a theory.
I will say that I have met few people that believe in god where fear didn't have something to do with it. And I have met alot of people that did not believe in God that had a bad past experience with religion and Christians.
Being a bit neutral can be fascinating and once again it has be amazing to watch in my own head and others.
Remember that I happen to be Jewish, not Christian. I use that picture because most of the Atheists and Agnostics I have known can relate to the image. There is no Hell in the Old Testament. I don't believe in a vengeful God of the Trinity.
Continue to do what is right and moral, living up to my standards for myself. Compassion and empathy does not come from a belief in God, it comes from within oneself.
I, personally believe that moral compass you are referring to in your self, comes from some religious training or exposure before you made the conscious decision that you didn't believe in God. Just my opinion, but to have that compass, you had to have had some if not all of it instilled in you somewhere, somehow, even if you deny it. Right and wrong comes from somewhere, and in my mind it comes from the Ten Commandments, though in other belief systems it has its roots in similar style written or unwritten laws.
Exactly!! That could not have been said any better! If they had no religious beliefs what so ever, then they would just live a totally selfish and unmoralistic life, taking as they please and living without guilt and any moral compass what so ever as they would believe without a doubt that there are no ramifications or consequenses what to ever after they die. So as you said, there is a belief in God and an afterlife instilled in all of us somewhere, somehow, no matter how small, even if they deny it.
:thumbsup:
