What should the US do with the situation in Egypt? Poll

31 Jan 2011 09:56 #11 by mtntrekker

Science Chic wrote: The current government is corrupt and the people are poor, want more access to healthcare, better opportunities, and fair police action. They are exercising their democratic right to protest a corrupt regime and call for change - Mubarak should step down. However, I think we should stay out of it - let the Egyptian people stand up for themselves. Not propping up Mubarak doesn't necessarily mean that Egypt will become a threat.


you talking about egypt or the usa?

i say stay out and let usa take care of its own serious problems. there is an attempt in the usa to do all of this civilly but if the politicians don't listen i seriously believe we could see the usa in the same boat

bumper sticker - honk if you will pay my mortgage

"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." attributed to Margaret Thatcher

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." Thomas Jefferson

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31 Jan 2011 10:54 #12 by outdoor338
Highlighting his own Muslim roots and embracing Islamic culture, President Obama on Thursday defined himself as the linchpin in a "new beginning" between the West and Islamic world.

"That experience guides my conviction that partnership between America and Islam must be based on what Islam is, not what it isn't. And I consider it part of my responsibility as president of the United States to fight against negative stereotypes of Islam wherever they appear"--Barack Hussein Obama, Cairo 2009

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31 Jan 2011 11:20 #13 by PrintSmith
I have just one question for all of those who want us to keep out of it. Where would we be today if France had taken a similar stance when British subjects revolted against their despotic ruler? This is an opportunity to make a friend in the region, one who is grateful for our help when it was needed. I agree that we should avoid entangling ourselves in disputes between two nations, but we should not let an opportunity pass us by to aid any who are seeking the same right to govern themselves that we enjoy.

France sent us equipment, their navy and troops when we needed their help to secure our own independence. We should be telling Mubarek that he can either leave peacefully, and quickly, or he can expect that our support will be had by those seeking to have the same liberty that we enjoy if he decides instead to stay and fight. We should have said the same to the Iranian government at the start of Obama's administration. We should say that whenever and wherever people are seeking to return to themselves the inalienable rights that they were created with.

If the next government of Egypt suppresses the individual liberty of the people, we tell them the same thing when their citizens seek to alter or abolish a government they feel has reduced them to living under its despotism. Either we believe in the principles contained in our own Declaration of Independence or we don't. If we believe in them, we support any who are seeking them for themselves. We don't support those seeking to impose marxism to replace dictators, we should always stay away, far away, from that. But we should always support those who are seeking to provide to themselves what our founders sought. We should always support the right of the people to alter or abolish their current government when they are no longer able to suffer under its evils.

We would not have our liberty were it not for the intervention of another, more powerful, ally into our revolution. We have a sacred duty to help others achieve the same for themselves. It is how we pay forward the help that we received when we needed it.

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31 Jan 2011 12:53 #14 by HEARTLESS
When I first read what SC had to say, corrupt government and poor people, I thought she meant us. I voted for other since we may have to see who will likely take over as Mubarak may be ousted. He may well be corrupt, but until recently he has helped stabalize an extreme region.

The silent majority will be silent no more.

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31 Jan 2011 15:14 #15 by LadyJazzer
Nah... We got rid of most of the corruption in ours in 2008.

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31 Jan 2011 15:18 #16 by Martin Ent Inc

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01 Feb 2011 13:14 #17 by ScienceChic
Some more food for thought on the situation...

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/01/mub ... hts-record
Mubarak's Human Rights Record
— By Emily Loftis | Tue Feb. 1, 2011

Below, some examples of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's misdeeds which illustrate nicely why so many Egyptians want him out for good.


http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/ar ... ive_march/
US Sees Writing on the Wall for Mubarak as Egyptians Begin Massive March

A closed-door, high-level White House meeting yesterday left participants clear on one issue: the West sees the writing on the wall for Egyptian leader Hosni Mubarak, and is planning already to help aid Egypt's transition to a functioning democracy.

The deciding factor? The Egyptian army has made it clear that they will not harm protesters, and have recognized the legitimacy of the people's demands, while Mubarak's new Prime Minister has offered to negotiate.


http://www.alternet.org/story/149741/ho ... _addiction
How Protests in the Middle East Could Choke Our Oil Addiction
A major conflict in the Persian Gulf could interrupt oil supplies and have massive repercussions in the US.
January 31, 2011

The stability of countries such as Egypt and other Arab states has been proven illusory. When the right geopolitical event in the Persian Gulf -- perhaps connected to the Tunisian, Egyptian and Yemeni trends now in play -- interrupts oil supplies by as much as 10% or more of global demand, the effect on the oil market may well be as if Hubbert's peak oil bell curve became a cliff that we have already jumped off.

Now, when people didn't expect it but should have, we see that Arab peoples have indeed been chafing under dictatorship for decades. Arabs, as in most places, have been biding their time for liberation. Whether certain regions can soon attain it is another matter, when many have far outstripped their besieged ecosystems' carrying capacities. In Middle Eastern countries the water and soil situations are generally poor and getting worse. Food shortage and food riots can flow from ecological deterioration, especially as new weather patterns (or non-patterns) have been increasingly disruptive for agriculture. This is one argument for activists in Arab lands to remember there is no liberation or equality on a dead planet.

Peak oil extraction happened worldwide around 2006, according to the International Energy Agency, although "peak" is not a single year due to the advent of nonconventional crudes and biofuels over time. Peak oil is the main reason we are living in very different "oil times" since 1979: growth of crude supply has turned a corner, starting downward. Compared to past years, even conventional crude (light, sweet, easily extracted) -- besides unconventional and expensive, extra-polluting oil replacements -- is far more expensive to exploit, with lower net energy obtained for newer fields.

Petrocollapse -- the exacerbated and lasting failure of the world oil market to meet demand, and the paralysis and collapse of most of the economy's infrastructure relying on petroleum -- does not need to follow a formula or specific pattern of oil industry breakdown or a certain depletion schedule of oil reserves. We will only be sure when petrocollapse hits. Because peak oil has been attained, we can say that the petrocollapse process has begun and just needs a catalyst to tip the whole economy and trigger famine on a scale as large as some future climate disaster.


"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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01 Feb 2011 13:37 #18 by The Viking

LadyJazzer wrote: Nah... We got rid of most of the corruption in ours in 2008.


Typo LJ. I'll help you out. You meant 2010.

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01 Feb 2011 13:43 #19 by ScienceChic
An interesting opinion/perspective from the other side: legitimate or just bitter towards us? Certainly Jordan, which is a big beneficiary of ours, doesn't seem to have these troubles...

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/op ... 41164.html
A tale of two protests
The subdued US reaction to events in Egypt sits in sharp contrast to its previous support for Iranian protesters.
Mohammed Khan Last Modified: 01 Feb 2011

Cast your minds back to June 2009 and the aftermath of Iran's disputed presidential elections. Months of unrest following the re-election of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and severe crackdowns meted out by the state security apparatus captured the airwaves not only in the Middle East but across the globe. The US government relentlessly pursued the "rights" of Iranians to protest peacefully and without intimidation and continued to castigate the Iranian authorities for the mass round up and ill treatment of demonstrators.

Now fast-forward by less than two years to the present. So you would expect the "leader of the free world", the US, to welcome the cry for freedom in Egypt, right? Well, not quite. Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, offered a particular gem of advice to Egyptians, which inevitably had the effect of rubbing salt in the protesters' wounds. While urging "all parties" to "exercise restraint" (why the actions of the demonstrators were equated to those of the security forces is anyone's guess), Clinton added the following caveat: "Our assessment is that the Egyptian government is stable and is looking for ways to respond to the legitimate needs and interests of the Egyptian people."

As for the need to keep open all communications channels for protesters, reports quickly surfaced that the Egyptian authorities were blocking access to Facebook and Twitter. "We urge the Egyptian authorities not to prevent peaceful protests or block communications including on social media sites," Clinton retorted. The generous "urge" was unlikely to be heeded.

US policy in the Middle East is naturally driven by ideology and self-interest. It is a policy built on defining allies and foes. Those that have traditionally demonstrated antipathy to US pursuits in the region have been deemed outcasts and vilified whilst those who have acquiesced, to the point of subservience, are flushed with cash and platitudes. The examples of Iran and Egypt are striking in this regard.

Egypt is the second largest recipient of US military and economic aid (after Israel) in the world, to the tune of some $1.5bn annually. It is the standard-bearer of the "moderate" Middle East camp, as defined by the US. It is only one of two (Jordan being the other) major Arab countries to have signed a peace deal with Israel. It is enforcing the isolation of the Palestinian Hamas movement in the Gaza Strip. It is vehemently opposed to Iran. It does not tolerate Islamic movements and the regime is seen as a bulwark against "Islamism," notably by suppressing the Muslim Brotherhood. It is a haven for foreign investment and liberal economic policies. All in all, Egypt's authoritarian leadership is befitting of US policy in the region and therefore Egypt's interests are the US' interests.

That the regime can willy-nilly abuse and silence its population is of little concern. Now that the public have spoken, we are told this presents an "important opportunity" for Mubarak to implement reform; reform that has been lacking for decades.

As for the Egyptian people, time will tell whether they will break the shackles of despotism. One thing that is becoming clear to them, however, is this: The US government is proving to be no friend of theirs.


"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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01 Feb 2011 15:13 #20 by PrintSmith

Science Chic wrote: An interesting opinion/perspective from the other side: legitimate or just bitter towards us? Certainly Jordan, which is a big beneficiary of ours, doesn't seem to have these troubles...

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/op ... 41164.html
A tale of two protests
As for the Egyptian people, time will tell whether they will break the shackles of despotism. One thing that is becoming clear to them, however, is this: The US government is proving to be no friend of theirs.

Which is why Obama and his administration need to publicly say that this nation adheres to the principles set forth in its own Declaration of Independence that the people have the right to alter or abolish their government when they deem it to have reduced them to living under its despotism and can no longer say that its evils are sufferable. This administration needs to get on the right side of this, right now and publicly support the right of the people to alter or abolish the Mubarek government and replace it with one organized upon principles which they feel will increase their happiness and safety.

It's a 30 second sound bite, straight out of the Declaration of Independence. Anyone here would have to have a career death wish to voice criticism of it, the Egyptian people would be heartened by it and the only opposition to it that would be voiced would be from the likes of Chavez, Castro and Mubarek. Obama would be a fool to let such an opportunity slip away.

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