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Science Chic wrote: The current government is corrupt and the people are poor, want more access to healthcare, better opportunities, and fair police action. They are exercising their democratic right to protest a corrupt regime and call for change - Mubarak should step down. However, I think we should stay out of it - let the Egyptian people stand up for themselves. Not propping up Mubarak doesn't necessarily mean that Egypt will become a threat.
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Below, some examples of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's misdeeds which illustrate nicely why so many Egyptians want him out for good.
A closed-door, high-level White House meeting yesterday left participants clear on one issue: the West sees the writing on the wall for Egyptian leader Hosni Mubarak, and is planning already to help aid Egypt's transition to a functioning democracy.
The deciding factor? The Egyptian army has made it clear that they will not harm protesters, and have recognized the legitimacy of the people's demands, while Mubarak's new Prime Minister has offered to negotiate.
The stability of countries such as Egypt and other Arab states has been proven illusory. When the right geopolitical event in the Persian Gulf -- perhaps connected to the Tunisian, Egyptian and Yemeni trends now in play -- interrupts oil supplies by as much as 10% or more of global demand, the effect on the oil market may well be as if Hubbert's peak oil bell curve became a cliff that we have already jumped off.
Now, when people didn't expect it but should have, we see that Arab peoples have indeed been chafing under dictatorship for decades. Arabs, as in most places, have been biding their time for liberation. Whether certain regions can soon attain it is another matter, when many have far outstripped their besieged ecosystems' carrying capacities. In Middle Eastern countries the water and soil situations are generally poor and getting worse. Food shortage and food riots can flow from ecological deterioration, especially as new weather patterns (or non-patterns) have been increasingly disruptive for agriculture. This is one argument for activists in Arab lands to remember there is no liberation or equality on a dead planet.
Peak oil extraction happened worldwide around 2006, according to the International Energy Agency, although "peak" is not a single year due to the advent of nonconventional crudes and biofuels over time. Peak oil is the main reason we are living in very different "oil times" since 1979: growth of crude supply has turned a corner, starting downward. Compared to past years, even conventional crude (light, sweet, easily extracted) -- besides unconventional and expensive, extra-polluting oil replacements -- is far more expensive to exploit, with lower net energy obtained for newer fields.
Petrocollapse -- the exacerbated and lasting failure of the world oil market to meet demand, and the paralysis and collapse of most of the economy's infrastructure relying on petroleum -- does not need to follow a formula or specific pattern of oil industry breakdown or a certain depletion schedule of oil reserves. We will only be sure when petrocollapse hits. Because peak oil has been attained, we can say that the petrocollapse process has begun and just needs a catalyst to tip the whole economy and trigger famine on a scale as large as some future climate disaster.
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LadyJazzer wrote: Nah... We got rid of most of the corruption in ours in 2008.
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Cast your minds back to June 2009 and the aftermath of Iran's disputed presidential elections. Months of unrest following the re-election of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and severe crackdowns meted out by the state security apparatus captured the airwaves not only in the Middle East but across the globe. The US government relentlessly pursued the "rights" of Iranians to protest peacefully and without intimidation and continued to castigate the Iranian authorities for the mass round up and ill treatment of demonstrators.
Now fast-forward by less than two years to the present. So you would expect the "leader of the free world", the US, to welcome the cry for freedom in Egypt, right? Well, not quite. Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, offered a particular gem of advice to Egyptians, which inevitably had the effect of rubbing salt in the protesters' wounds. While urging "all parties" to "exercise restraint" (why the actions of the demonstrators were equated to those of the security forces is anyone's guess), Clinton added the following caveat: "Our assessment is that the Egyptian government is stable and is looking for ways to respond to the legitimate needs and interests of the Egyptian people."
As for the need to keep open all communications channels for protesters, reports quickly surfaced that the Egyptian authorities were blocking access to Facebook and Twitter. "We urge the Egyptian authorities not to prevent peaceful protests or block communications including on social media sites," Clinton retorted. The generous "urge" was unlikely to be heeded.
US policy in the Middle East is naturally driven by ideology and self-interest. It is a policy built on defining allies and foes. Those that have traditionally demonstrated antipathy to US pursuits in the region have been deemed outcasts and vilified whilst those who have acquiesced, to the point of subservience, are flushed with cash and platitudes. The examples of Iran and Egypt are striking in this regard.
Egypt is the second largest recipient of US military and economic aid (after Israel) in the world, to the tune of some $1.5bn annually. It is the standard-bearer of the "moderate" Middle East camp, as defined by the US. It is only one of two (Jordan being the other) major Arab countries to have signed a peace deal with Israel. It is enforcing the isolation of the Palestinian Hamas movement in the Gaza Strip. It is vehemently opposed to Iran. It does not tolerate Islamic movements and the regime is seen as a bulwark against "Islamism," notably by suppressing the Muslim Brotherhood. It is a haven for foreign investment and liberal economic policies. All in all, Egypt's authoritarian leadership is befitting of US policy in the region and therefore Egypt's interests are the US' interests.
That the regime can willy-nilly abuse and silence its population is of little concern. Now that the public have spoken, we are told this presents an "important opportunity" for Mubarak to implement reform; reform that has been lacking for decades.
As for the Egyptian people, time will tell whether they will break the shackles of despotism. One thing that is becoming clear to them, however, is this: The US government is proving to be no friend of theirs.
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Which is why Obama and his administration need to publicly say that this nation adheres to the principles set forth in its own Declaration of Independence that the people have the right to alter or abolish their government when they deem it to have reduced them to living under its despotism and can no longer say that its evils are sufferable. This administration needs to get on the right side of this, right now and publicly support the right of the people to alter or abolish the Mubarek government and replace it with one organized upon principles which they feel will increase their happiness and safety.Science Chic wrote: An interesting opinion/perspective from the other side: legitimate or just bitter towards us? Certainly Jordan, which is a big beneficiary of ours, doesn't seem to have these troubles...
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/op ... 41164.html
A tale of two protests
As for the Egyptian people, time will tell whether they will break the shackles of despotism. One thing that is becoming clear to them, however, is this: The US government is proving to be no friend of theirs.
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