Conifer Park & Rec District Discussion Thread

existing discussion going on over at Pinecam http://www.pinecam.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... sc&start=0

***********************************************************

EMAIL FORM for ease of requesting mail-in ballot "application"

***********************************************************

Send email to:



Subject:

Mail-in Ballot request for May 3rd election

Body of Email

Full Name
Street Address
City, State, Zip

***********************************************************
THEN when you get the "application", it MUST be mailed back by 4/26. I just sent mine and got the application back in 2 minutes from Sue!
********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

based upon what I have read and understand so far, my vote is NO

Given the economic times we find ourselves in, now is NOT the time add another gov't bureaucracy on our plates.


TAXES TO PAY FOR THIS
On page 10 of the plan http://www.focpr.org/attachments/2010-1 ... 20Plan.pdf
"The District will not seek approval for a mill levy at its
organizational election. Thus, the District will operate for a period of time without assessing any property tax."

To me that only says that THIS vote is NOT asking for WHAT the property and other taxes will be - THAT WILL HAPPEN AFTER they get the approval to move forward and how do you put the horse back in the barn?



EMINENT DOMAIN
The District will have the powers of eminent domain granted pursuant to C.R.S. §32-1-1005(1)(c), including but not limited to taking property within the District for the purpose of easements and rights-of-way for access to park and recreational facilities operated by the District where no other access exists or can be acquired by other means.

PAGE 20
"The Park & Recreation Services contemplated by this Service Plan would be permitted under the zoning regulations applicable to the facilities the District would seek to rent, use or manage, such as in the King Soopers Center/Aspen Park, Conifer Town Center, Beaver Ranch or other facility or space as may be selected by the District Board."

and they want to set up shop in the most expensive real estate we have up here. We simply don't have the money to do this and we WILL PAY for it. I say NO

PAGE 26
"The approximately 2,523 school-age kids (K-12) do not have access to local after-school community sports programs or constructive gathering
places. Teenagers typically ask their parents to drive them into the Denver suburbs to congregate at malls.'

exactly, the kids want to hang out at the MALL...this is not a MALL


we DO NOT need any more development up here. We already have a ton of empty places built by developers that have never been occupied.


Until the economy recovers AND we KNOW what the tax burden will be, I say NO

Having been through a transistion from unincorporated areas (Contra Costa County, CA) to small incorporated towns (San Ramon, Danville, Alamo, CA) I see a very similar quandry. The exception is that that area was very economically viable (SF East Bay) .

We can not determine our destiny until we take responsibility for our own area - the Rec District is a Start. It will actually give us more power over development of a center not less. In defense of a center - the kids here really have no place to go in the summers and after school. The center will symbolize responsible growth and a level of sophistication we really need here......a start. Incorporation is in the future and at that point we will really have much more control of our area (now it is in Golden and small groups of pseudo hippies seeking more isolation). THE wealth here comes UP from Denver via well paying jobs and is not locally sustainable otherwise. We have no choice but to appeal to the folks that are the current and future foundation for Conifer. Evergreen is a good model. Controlled, responsible growth with a eye to the future is prudent.

Great post WW.

Delta, we are not the east bay, nor do we want to become the east bay. If you really want the California expereince, I have a suggestion for you.

to quote Horace Greely "go west young man"

Grady - your post summarizes the exact problem that has depopulated Park County and damages the Conifer area. Thanks. Hard to make a living digging horse graves and plowing snow these days.

Paying attention to what is going on around us and acting on it= taking responsibility, no matter what your vote is. Just because you don't like the vote doesn't mean people have not been responsible and taking care of their community as they see fit.

Evergreen is a poor example of positive growth. In the late 1980s, early 1990s, we went through a growth spurt here, one that has failed in the the 2000s, leaving huge tracts of business property empty - EVERY complex has empty spots up here; I believe the Albertson's complex has only Domino's left - the liquor store got locked out, the hair place left, and Albertson's has been gone over a year now. Complex across the street from it - empty spots. All the complexes in Bergen Park - empty stores. Safeway - empty stores - too many. Main Street - empty stores, not counting the one that was condemned because of the water running under it. (Looks like the creek is trying to go back to its original bed.) Foreclosed houses all over the place throughout Hiwan and other subdivisions.

There is negative growth in Evergreen right now, and they screwed the tourism even more by A. Getting rid of the tour bus that used to come up from Denver daily and B. Assigning fees for use of the lake.

Your example shows a lack of true knowledge of what is actually going on in the area. It shows that you do not talk to the business people like I and others do, and know that only summer tourism saves most of them, because the business is NOT coming from the residents. Of course, one of the biggest complaints about Evergreen by the locals is that the medium range restaurants aren't open for dinners, so people don't come home and have dinner, they stay down the hill and have dinner.

On this side of the hill, the restaurants have learned from Evergreen's example, and all the medium range - as well as the high range - restaurants ARE open for dinners. And the food is quality, and the vast majority of their business is locals, NOT tourism.

Find a new example that's actually in this state, cause I'll tell you about how great California is - in 2000, we bought our first home in Iowa. My ex husband bought his first home in California. Same amount of floor space, same lot size, and he paid $300,000 MORE than we did. Our second home in Iowa - bigger and still $225,000 CHEAPER than his. This house here - 500 more square feet than our first house, in 2007, and yet still $175,000 LESS than his house. He cannot afford to move, even though he wants to, because even a rental would cost more than he pays on his house now. And his income is not any better than most professional folks around here. Yet another POOR example.

Yet we should bring that lifestyle here because a few people want it? ALL of us should compromise our values, our community ideals, all because a few folks want it their way? Ummm, no. If 5 out of 100 people want a different place, then they should go find that different place rather than attempt to force the other 95 to change their place.

I moved out of the city so my son could have the experience of running around in the mountains, in having a more rural lifstyle again, like when he was very small. I will stay here after he goes intot he military because this is the lifestyle WE - our whole family -prefers. It's an old saw, but if you can't stand how "boring" it is up here, the city is 45 minutes away. We won't force you to stay.

A point you keep missing Del, is the vast number of us who work from home, successfully, with limited need to go to the city. And it has nothing to do with snow plowing or grave digging. Truly, your purposeful ignorance is astounding.

Taxing people more for a swing set for the kids is unacceptable in today's environment. we have much bigger fish to fry. Of COURSE, that is an oversimplification of this, but, look, we moved "out to the sticks" for a reason. If you want/need all the accommodations of a city, then of course, there is a simple solution that does not tax the rest of us. relocate

Park County's issues are because they are too far from a major city and there is no industry up there - and NO industry is willing to come in. The ONLY reason that area developed was the mines and the railroads, especially the ill thought out Denver, South Park and Pacific Railroad, that went broke before it even left the state; it never got near the Pacific ocean. When most of the mines closed, population dropped and need for the railroad dropped. In the 1930s, most railroad routes shut down. Vast majority of Park County became ghost towns - in the 1970s and early 1980s, Fairplay was a ghost town,so was Como. ONLY people willing to distance work keeps those areas alive, and some ranches.

Attempts to get industries in have failed time and time again, because frankly, most of Park county is cold and unhospitable. Fairplay tried really hard many times - and they have failed many times.

The only industries keeping the area alive are two prisons and the ski area and a minimal amount of tourism - cause 4th of July is STILL cold in Como.

THAT is why population in Park county is going down. Once again, pays to pay attention to not only what is actually going on, but also to the history of the area. Doesn;t take much effort to find out about it - the books are in the libraries, available in all the local book stores and several gift shops.

I would refer you to Doug Kinzy's article in Serenity (he is the editor) FEB 2011........he has been here 30+ years and seems to completely (mostly) disagree with your entire position.

Because obviously 285 will be developed in the long term as the back door to Summit County and because obviously (drive 285 3-7 PM Fridays) the folks here with real work are going to Denver, it is prudent to look at the future and not hold on (cling) to the past. The two new shopping centers were developed obviously looking forward not in the rear view mirror. We cannot stop progress but only control the process at best.

deltamrey wrote: I would refer you to Doug Kinzy's article in Serenity (he is the editor) FEB 2011........he has been here 30+ years and seems to completely (mostly) disagree with your entire position.

Because obviously 285 will be developed in the long term as the back door to Summit County and because obviously (drive 285 3-7 PM Fridays) the folks here with real work are going to Denver, it is prudent to look at the future and not hold on (cling) to the past. The two new shopping centers were developed obviously looking forward not in the rear view mirror.We cannot stop progress but only control the process at best.

and what is the occupancy rate? . . they are MOSTLY empty - built not for forward progress, but the usual greedy land developers....

And the old shopping center that was full (before the new ones) is struggling....