Conifer Park & Rec District Discussion Thread

deltamrey wrote: IF we are to progress here we must repopulate slowly with skilled people (not back hoe operators and snow plow operators)...BTW this is a National problem. IF we turn around the culture based on football, beer and booze rehab it will take decades

thanks deltamrey you lose my vote. i happen to like back hoe operators and snow plow operators. if you want 'skilled people' and a 'rec center' and the corresponding taxes move to evergreen. problem solved.

deltamrey wrote: I would refer you to Doug Kinzy's article in Serenity (he is the editor) FEB 2011........he has been here 30+ years and seems to completely (mostly) disagree with your entire position.

Because obviously 285 will be developed in the long term as the back door to Summit County and because obviously (drive 285 3-7 PM Fridays) the folks here with real work are going to Denver, it is prudent to look at the future and not hold on (cling) to the past. The two new shopping centers were developed obviously looking forward not in the rear view mirror. We cannot stop progress but only control the process at best.

So what the folks up here that work do not have "REAL WORK". I work up here, I have "Real Work" So what is real work. Guess you need to explain it to those of us mountain folk that aint got no clue about nuthing.

The friends for the conifer park and rec district, have yet to be truthful, have yet to tell the real story about the taxes, taking over of property that is not theirs. It is more about a power play than anything, you also think these folks up here are stupid. Guess what they fooled you. We do know how to read. You have lied from the beginning and will stop at nothing to get your little world that you want without regard to anyone else. You don't like the way things are, pack up and move to Denver or Evergreen.

Simply put - the economy up here is vectored from Denver - except for local retail and limited services. The needs of the people here are not being met because of retrograde attitudes and a lack of foresight. It will change sooner or later. A rec district is a good first step before incorporation.

BTW I do not dislike any honest work - I started my career as a machinist - I have to not prove anything to anyone here. BUT I know economics and this area is in a depression and low skill work is about all that is remaining. I see families begging for work from the back of RVs, food banks depleted, schools closing, chambers raising fees because of businesses closing,.......long list and right in front of you if you care to notice. We need leadership and progress to get us out of this mess. You move you are the problem !!!

We need leadership and progress to get us out of this mess.

I don't know what kind of progress your talking about - but our area grows when the economy is good, and it retracts when it is not so good. This is the 100+ year old history of this area. If you think a city slicker like yourself can change 100 years of history - put your money on the line..... not mine.

Your vision of the area and what you think it will become seems a little distorted to me. We have always been a bedroom community and our biggest asset is the fact that we have not become the big city. Our biggest asset is that in 45 minutes - one can get away from all that trash - gangs - and problems that a big city has.

My view after having been up here for more than 30 years is that a few shortsighted developers were looking for a quick project - slap in a few mini-malls and run with the profits without knowing the area and the demographics. Even if they did know - they did not care- so now the place is obiviously overbuilt. More retail space exists than local business can utilize - for whatever reason - not enough customer base or rents too high for a business to profit.

I think the area is now too big for the demographic and I think it's not going to grow bigger anytime soon. Maybe several years - that may not be a bad thing either.

But this thread is about the REC center special district being formed.

Since it is quite clear that the community at large does not want this new tax district - and my evidence is that the community has voted this down 3 times now......

And the sneaky way they have rigged this election in the proponants favor......

Having the 4th proposal on a "off election year" - and sending no mail ballots out without request - having only one polling place ETC.....

Here's what were going to do about it. Let's say that this proposal gets passed with all these snake like tatics. We know the community at large does not want this.

I'm going to organize another proposal - to disband the District if it by chance passes. Only this time the proposal will be on the ballot in a major election year- 2012.

If this little rag tag group wants to shove this down our throats using all these nasty tatics - we can also use their tatics against them.

Let's have this issue on the ballot AGAIN - this time in 2012 - when everyone comes out to vote - and disband this Special District before it gets to tax us.

That's where my money will be going - if this thing passes on this off-year election.

BearMtnHIB wrote:

We need leadership and progress to get us out of this mess.

I don't know what kind of progress your talking about - but our area grows when the economy is good, and it retracts when it is not so good. This is the 100+ year old history of this area. If you think a city slicker like yourself can change 100 years of history - put your money on the line..... not mine.

Your vision of the area and what you think it will become seems a little distorted to me. We have always been a bedroom community and our biggest asset is the fact that we have not become the big city. Our biggest asset is that in 45 minutes - one can get away from all that trash - gangs - and problems that a big city has.

My view after having been up here for more than 30 years is that a few shortsighted developers were looking for a quick project - slap in a few mini-malls and run with the profits without knowing the area and the demographics. Even if they did know - they did not care- so now the place is obiviously overbuilt. More retail space exists than local business can utilize - for whatever reason - not enough customer base or rents too high for a business to profit.

I think the area is now too big for the demographic and I think it's not going to grow bigger anytime soon. Maybe several years - that may not be a bad thing either.

But this thread is about the REC center special district being formed.

Since it is quite clear that the community at large does not want this new tax district - and my evidence is that the community has voted this down 3 times now......

And the sneaky way they have rigged this election in the proponants favor......

Having the 4th proposal on a "off election year" - and sending no mail ballots out without request - having only one polling place ETC.....

Here's what were going to do about it. Let's say that this proposal gets passed with all these snake like tatics. We know the community at large does not want this.

I'm going to organize another proposal - to disband the District if it by chance passes. Only this time the proposal will be on the ballot in a major election year- 2012.

If this little rag tag group wants to shove this down our throats using all these nasty tatics - we can also use their tatics against them.

Let's have this issue on the ballot AGAIN - this time in 2012 - when everyone comes out to vote - and disband this Special District before it gets to tax us.

That's where my money will be going - if this thing passes on this off-year election.

:goodpost:

Bear - very well said. Navyco - also well said.

You ever go down the hill, Del? Ever go to another county when down the hill? Ever go to any other state (including California, which you wish we would emulate)? All these things you claim are unique to here are EVERYWHERE across the country. Stop trying to make it look like we're the only community in the world affected by the state of the economy.

We see it. Thing is, you only see it as an indicator of all of us "bottom feeders" up here - the microscopic view, rather than realizing its a country wide problem. My dad, a long time resident of the area and a business owner himself, laughed at your "knowledge" of economics, because clearly you don't get how it works for large corporations, nor how the strip malls up here are working. We both wonder - are YOU the owner of the new Safeway complex? Because that would explain the skewed view. Until you realize that until the economic situation fully recovers for the ENTIRE COUNTY, life in small towns - and we are a small town up here - is going to remain as it is. Small towns change LAST - something you with your "knowledge" of economics should know.

You are also misusing terms - the CULTURE is not wounded in this area; the culture is exactly what the vast majority of the people in this area want it to be. That of small town rural life. YOU and a few others want the culture to be that of fast paced cities - you are exceptions. People here WANT to be able to sit on their decks and watch the elk wander through, go to breakfast or lunch with their friends, stop of the side of the road and get out of their cars to talk to their neighbors, and to keep new building up here to 10 acres to preserve the wildlife and nature. THIS is the CULTURE of the area.

What is damaged is the ECONOMY of the area, and even then, not as damaged as you would assume. yes, Evergreen relies on tourists more than locals. This side of the hill, they rely on locals, and get that support. With the exception of those big box businesses that pulled out for reasons already explained and dismissed by you without any real consideration, new businesses have opened over the past couple years, and most are still here. People who live over here have "real" jobs - any work that you do that brings you a satisfactory income IS A REAL JOB.

But keep talking, keep discrediting yourself. Keep up the name calling as well, because all us "bottom feeders" and "losers" we'll keep on with life as normal.

BTW, its the bottom feeders who do the hard work in any water source, keeping the ecological system working as it should, to keep the scum off the surface of the water, Consider us "bottom feeders"- we're keeping the economy going up here, in a way we prefer, so we don't have to see and deal with the scum. Rec district - scum. Campers at Shaffer's Crossing - indicative of scum.

Get it yet? Or do we have to go all Forest People on you and quote old movies, saying stupid stuff like "yer kind ain't wanted here."?

deltamrey wrote: BTW I do not dislike any honest work - I started my career as a machinist - I have to not prove anything to anyone here. BUT I know economics and this area is in a depression and low skill work is about all that is remaining. I see families begging for work from the back of RVs, food banks depleted, schools closing, chambers raising fees because of businesses closing,.......long list and right in front of you if you care to notice. We need leadership and progress to get us out of this mess. You move you are the problem !!!

First I do not know of anyone up here that has to prove anything to anyone. Here is a little news for ya. Look at the country and then the state. You notice anything. The depression is everywhere. Not just up here. Unemployment has risen again. People are at street corners everywhere just about asking for money, its not just up here. Now you say we need leadership and progress. Well those trying to get this park and rec district going are about a corrupt as it can get. All we have heard is no taxes, no taking of property, etc. Now when you read the issue on the Jefferson County website, totally different story. So who is lying here. Dont think it is those that are opposed to this. They wanted the real story and got alot of lip flapping and back stabbing and lies. So now the truth has come out, where I come from that is not leadership, that is BS and lies and corruption. Again you don't like they way it is, move down where you can get the leadership and progress you want so bad. You think we (those of us who oppose it are the problem) you need to go look at the lies that have been told on this and those that want it trying to do it through the lies and corruption. They cannot even do it with honesty. No we are not the problem, the so called friends of the conifer park and rec district are the problem.

deltamrey wrote: BTW I do not dislike any honest work - I started my career as a machinist - I have to not prove anything to anyone here. BUT I know economics and this area is in a depression and low skill work is about all that is remaining. I see families begging for work from the back of RVs, food banks depleted, schools closing, chambers raising fees because of businesses closing,.......long list and right in front of you if you care to notice. We need leadership and progress to get us out of this mess. You move you are the problem !!!

Not to nit-pick, but exactly which schools up here are closing?

Several in JeffCO, not to "renit", are under consideration to be combined. I am aware the student bodies have shrunk at several elementary and middle schools and layoffs have happened already. No one should, not to nit, openly divulge this info yet.