Pfizer Gets Teen Vaccine Approval.

07 Jun 2021 07:26 #21 by Wayne Harrison
Instead of waiting for an answer, why not actively search for an answer? Nobody I know of on here is an epidemiologist anyway.

This popped up on the the CDC website and Washington Post this month.

"COVID-19 adolescent hospitalization rates from COVID-NET peaked at 2.1 per 100,000 in early January 2021, declined to 0.6 in mid-March, and rose to 1.3 in April. Among hospitalized adolescents, nearly one third required intensive care unit admission, and 5% required invasive mechanical ventilation; no associated deaths occurred."

www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7023e1.htm

"Citing increased hospitalization rates of teenagers with covid-19 in March and April, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Rochelle Walensky urged parents to vaccinate their teens to protect them from an illness that can be severe even among young people.

“I am deeply concerned by the numbers of hospitalized adolescents and saddened to see the numbers of adolescents who required treatment in intensive care units or mechanical ventilation,” Walensky said in a statement that was released Friday alongside a new study looking at trends in hospitalization among adolescents with the disease.

“Much of this suffering can be prevented,” Walensky added, urging “parents, relatives and close friends to join me and talk with teens” about the importance of prevention strategies and to encourage vaccination.

The study showed that nearly one-third of those teenagers hospitalized with covid-19 during a surge of cases early this year required intensive care, and 5 percent required mechanical ventilation."

www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/06/04...ng-hospitalizations/

It appears to me that the mortality rate is not the most important factor in this age group.

I could be wrong. I have been before and will be again.

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07 Jun 2021 07:33 #22 by FredHayek

ramage wrote: More importantly, why subject children to a vaccination for a disease that has a 0.04% mortality rate according to the CDC?

Still waiting for an answer to the above question.


Have to agree with Wayne on this one, just because you don't wind up dead, doesn't mean our teens are automatically safe. Lots of Polio patients didn't die, but spent their lives in iron lungs or needing assistance to walk like FDR.

Have you seen the latest numbers out of India? It really looks like people in their 20's are getting hit much harder by their variant than the variants we saw earlier.

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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07 Jun 2021 13:22 #23 by ramage
You don't need to be an epidemiologist to answer this question.
Wayne, you stated that your daughter is an OB-GYN resident. I would be interested to know if she actively recommends receiving the modified m-RNA medicine to her adolescent pregnant patients who are asymptomatic.

Fred, unlike the polio virus the Wuhan virus does not selectively attack anterior horn cells (motor control).
I know of no medical literature that posits infection with the Wuhan virus will leave a patient ventilator dependent for the rest of his life.

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07 Jun 2021 14:34 #24 by ScienceChic

ramage wrote: More importantly, why subject children to a vaccination for a disease that has a 0.04% mortality rate according to the CDC?

Still waiting for an answer to the above question.

Because it's the wrong question to ask, especially without providing any evidence to previously asked questions on how an mRNA vaccine would, following known observations for the physical, biochemical, and genetic actions of mRNA in vivo, possibly cause long-term effects.

The fact is that we still vaccinate kids for tetanus, diptheria, pertussis, whooping cough, and many other infectious diseases despite the fact that the overall mortality rate from those is significantly lower than from COVID-19. Why do we do this? Because kids are still at risk of becoming infected and suffering permanent, long-lasting harm or death from completely preventable diseases, or from contracting and passing along those viruses to other people. It's exactly the same with vaccinating against SARS-CoV-2. It will dramatically reduce, and hopefully stop, the spread of this virus throughout the population, particularly to those who are at higher risk of severe complications or who cannot be immunized.

mRNA vaccines have been studied since the 1990s, and have been made to multiple viruses. They have been demonstrated safe and effective. The statement "many reputable geneticists and virologists are opposed to vaccinating kids," means nothing without proof or context of the number of those opposed compared to those for vaccinating kids, nor without discussion of how it could cause side effects.

mRNA vaccines — a new era in vaccinology
Published: 12 January 2018
Norbert Pardi, Michael J. Hogan, Frederick W. Porter & Drew Weissman
Nature Reviews Drug Discovery volume 17, pages 261–279 (2018)

Infectious Disease Death Rates Mostly Down Across U.S.
by Molly Walker, Staff Writer, MedPage Today March 27, 2018

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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08 Jun 2021 07:35 #25 by ramage
Why do you continually conflate an attenuated or dead virus with a manipulated RNA.


The fact is that we still vaccinate kids for tetanus, diptheria, pertussis, whooping cough, and many other infectious diseases despite the fact that the overall mortality rate from those is significantly lower than from COVID-19.

Why doesn't the FDA give full unconditional approval for the Moderna and Pfizer medications? Is it because they like many others, including myself, don't know the answers to your questions below.

Because it's the wrong question to ask, especially without providing any evidence to previously asked questions on how an mRNA vaccine would, following known observations for the physical, biochemical, and genetic actions of mRNA in vivo, possibly cause long-term effects.

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08 Jun 2021 16:19 #26 by ScienceChic
Would you mind pointing out where I "conflate" an mRNA vaccine with a traditional live-attenuated or deadened vaccine? I've posted links to articles and papers that describe the technology used to create the mRNA vaccines so I thought I was being clear as to what they were.

If you don't know the answer to the questions that I posed, which are about basic genetics, molecular biology, biochemistry, and physical chemistry workings of our cells then I would posit that the concerns you have lack merit because the claims that these vaccines will cause side effects like infertility are not based in reality of how the cells and organ systems in the body work. Your foot cannot become your brain, nor does mRNA last long enough in the body to cause any sort of lasting effect. The protein it codes is only a portion of the spike protein from the virus which has no functionality - it is in essence a deadened virus, all the researchers did was use the building material to create the protein rather than the protein for the virus itself. They encased it in lipids, the same kind which comprise our cell walls, and injected it in a saline solution with a bit of sugar. Far fewer ingredients than are usually in a vaccine which should make anti-vaxxers happier.

As to why the FDA hasn't given full approval rather than the current emergency approval, I have no idea but would guess that it's due to the fact that they are waiting for the results of the additional trials that are ongoing on kids and following their standard timeline for approval. Millions have been vaccinated now and there've been very few confirmed severe side effects.

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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08 Jun 2021 16:39 #27 by ramage
You choose to call the m-RNA medication a vaccine. "an mRNA vaccine " I adhere to the following definition:
vaccine [vak-sēn´]
a suspension of attenuated or killed microorganisms (viruses, bacteria, or rickettsiae), administered for prevention, amelioration, or treatment of infectious diseases.

If you choose to redefine vaccine, so be it. As I point out some time ago, that is Humpty Dumpty reasoning "Words mean what I say they mean" paraphrasing Lewis Carroll.

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08 Jun 2021 18:52 #28 by ScienceChic
Yes, because that's not only what the manufacturers and the CDC are calling it, but it also fits the definition of a vaccine. Additionally, live-attenuated viruses used as vaccines still contain either DNA or RNA that can function to create the proteins that our immune system recognizes and creates antibodies for, which is no different than the mRNA that was used for the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine.

From Merriam-Webster:

Definition of vaccine

1 : a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease: such as
a : an antigenic preparation of a typically inactivated or attenuated (see attenuated sense 2) pathogenic agent (such as a bacterium or virus) or one of its components or products (such as a protein or toxin)
b : a preparation of genetic material (such as a strand of synthesized messenger RNA) that is used by the cells of the body to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of virus spike protein) …

2 : a preparation or immunotherapy that is used to stimulate the body's immune response against noninfectious substances, agents, or diseases


"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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09 Jun 2021 09:05 #29 by FredHayek
Looks like both Moderna and Pfizer will be approved soon for use in younger children. Great news.

And please explain this to me like I am a 3rd grader. With the mRNA, you are adding code to fight a virus to the body. Will that code remain forever so we won't need a booster shot? Or is the booster shot designed to handle different variants?

And will this eventually lead to a cure for the common cold?

Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.

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09 Jun 2021 11:06 #30 by ScienceChic
FH, no, mRNA is degraded rather quickly in our cells so if the immune response is not strong enough the first time, you need a booster. If they wish to create a new mRNA that codes for a slightly different protein that has risen due to mutation (i.e. variants), then I would assume that they need to go through testing all over again to prove efficacy and safety.

As to curing the common cold, I have doubts. It mutates more quickly, which has also been the reason we've always had to get new flu vaccines each year.

"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill

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