One foot in the grave for ObamaCare in 11th Circuit

Nobody that matters wrote:

LadyJazzer wrote: Medicare works very nicely, thank you...and if we had Universal Coverage, we could get the profit-driven whores out of our medical care.

Medicare is a financial black hole, and if you remove the profit from healthcare, you'll remove the incentive to improve. If we get universal coverage forced down our throats, we'll have only second rate clinics to rely on to pull it back out while we're choking.

really? How much worse can we get?.....we now spend more than any industrialized country for healthcare yet we rank #37. We are the only industrialized nation that does not provide healthcare for all it's citizens. Why can they do it, and do it cost effectively, yet the US cannot? I don't believe that,. I think if we decided to have a single payer system in this country we would save money and start climbing back up the ranking ladder to #1. If we can't.....then there is something awfully wrong with our priorities.

Seven years ago, the World Health Organization made the first major effort to rank the health systems of 191 nations. France and Italy took the top two spots; the United States was a dismal 37th. More recently, the highly regarded Commonwealth Fund has pioneered in comparing the United States with other advanced nations through surveys of patients and doctors and analysis of other data. Its latest report, issued in May, ranked the United States last or next-to-last compared with five other nations — Australia, Canada, Germany, New Zealand and the United Kingdom — on most measures of performance, including quality of care and access to it. Other comparative studies also put the United States in a relatively bad light.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html

From Yahoo Answers

WHO rankings:

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

And if you don't like the NYT.....do a simple google search on US health care rank and you will find lots more on how dismal our healthcare system is.

archer, is that the Dr Who rating or the bat guano crazy rating you posted? Greece is going bankrupt, or do they not watch or listen to the news? Since you're wondering how much worse it can get, post again next year when the US follows in the footsteps of Greece. Just like the Dire Straits song, "health care for nothin and your cheese for free." :faint:

The ranking was determined according to the weight the WHO attached to the data that the WHO thought was relevant for examination. Oh yeah, that's bound to be an unbiased examination of reality.

archer wrote: really? How much worse can we get?

rofllol :rofl
I'm sorry, I'm sure your post was a fact-filled rebuttal that would make any debate guru proud, but I just couldn't read any of it because I was laughing so hard at this first line.

It boggles the imagination to contemplate just how badly our federal government is capable of screwing things up.

HEARTLESS wrote: archer, is that the Dr Who rating or the bat guano crazy rating you posted? Greece is going bankrupt, or do they not watch or listen to the news? Since you're wondering how much worse it can get, post again next year when the US follows in the footsteps of Greece. Just like the Dire Straits song, "health care for nothin and your cheese for free." :faint:

For those unwilling to actually educate themselves....it was based on infant mortality....life expectancy...quality of care etc. Once again we hear from those compassionate conservatives who are against abortion but don't care of the infant dies after birth, or how long people live, or if people can get medical care when they need it....it's all about them and what might inconvenience them.

I never could understand the mentality that we shouldn't improve anything in this country

archer wrote:

HEARTLESS wrote: archer, is that the Dr Who rating or the bat guano crazy rating you posted? Greece is going bankrupt, or do they not watch or listen to the news? Since you're wondering how much worse it can get, post again next year when the US follows in the footsteps of Greece. Just like the Dire Straits song, "health care for nothin and your cheese for free." :faint:

For those unwilling to actually educate themselves....it was based on infant mortality....life expectancy...quality of care etc. Once again we hear from those compassionate conservatives who are against abortion but don't care of the infant dies after birth, or how long people live, or if people can get medical care when they need it....it's all about them and what might inconvenience them.

I never could understand the mentality that we shouldn't improve anything in this country

I do remember hearing that most countries that ranked higher than us on this report actually calculated things differently such as infant mortality. We count stillborn or infants that die withing 24 hrs of birth while other countries don't.

Please point out the vast medical improvements of your beloved nations on the list, and to keep it simple use the top five. Did they create the ct scan, MRI or even most drugs to treat illness? NO! Most all occurred here because of capitalism, our superior medical training and our ingenuity.

I'll make this easy, the leaders are the US (37), Japan (10), China (not even on the list), Germany (25) and the UK (18). Next year China may bypass Japan and the US for the biggest innovator. However, the Canadians have given the world, skunk beers, bacon that is really ham, etc.

PrintSmith wrote:

Kate wrote: My point is that even if you somehow take money out of the equation, medical research will still continue, because there are those that have passion in their life's work. They want to find a cure for diseases and will do so regardless of how much money they make.

Money is not the only driving force behind medical research, as you insinuated.

That being the case, how about we get the folks in Congress to pass a law that says any research funding provided by the government gives ownership of the patents of any results from that research to the government and see how many people still ask the government to fund their research.

Under the Bayh-Dole Act (1980) 35 USC 200 - 203, on any invention funded with government money, the US government retains "march-in" rights. That is, the government may take over ownership of any patents on any inventions developed with government money, except where a small business or non-profit can retain ownership if they are adequately commercializing the invention.

This has not stopped any company, large or small, from seeking funding for research.

archer wrote: For those unwilling to actually educate themselves....it was based on infant mortality....life expectancy...quality of care etc. Once again we hear from those compassionate conservatives who are against abortion but don't care of the infant dies after birth, or how long people live, or if people can get medical care when they need it....it's all about them and what might inconvenience them.

I never could understand the mentality that we shouldn't improve anything in this country

And those who are only willing to partially educate themselves the data that was weighted and chosen for examination wasn't even consistent nation to nation - rendering the ability to extract anything resembling an impartial examination of the data or draw sound conclusions from the data impossible.

FWIW, I'm all for improving things - just not for handing over determining how that can best be accomplished to the federal government. It has proven itself remarkably inept at determining the best manner to accomplish anything throughout the course of my life.