death of the Democratic Party

conifermtman wrote:

chickaree wrote: Both parties are beholden to special interests. Rather than casting blame do YOU call your representative to complain? Refuse to vote for representatives who fail to move to end these abuses? What I see is a group of people who excuse the abuses when their party commits them, but points fingers accusingly when the other party does. Talk about hypocritical behavior. We have to both cut spending AND raise revenue to pay for stuff that we have already bought.

Then join the Tea Party. We already do that. Do you really think we have a revenue problem?

We obviously do and only selfish fools will say we don't. If my foolish spending puts my family deeply into debt I not only have to stop buying Range Rovers, but I also need to get a night job. Too many in our society are not carrying their fair share of the load. In fact the middle class carries almost all of it. The lower classes need to give up some of their entitlements while the upper classes need to give up some of their tax breaks. When the Tea party acknowledges this reality perhaps then I'll join. As long as they slavishly carry water for the wealthy and the transnational corporations that don't contribute to our national well being I'm just not interested.

Something the Dog Said wrote: And to whom do the natural resources on public lands belong to? Why should the American public not receive revenue on their natural resources? It is also a fallacy that taxes would be passed onto consumers (although should not those who actually use a product pay the true costs of that product instead of being subsidized by taxpayers), rather than deducted from the oil company record profits, as the world market sets the price. And yes I know what a loophole is, it is an exemption from paying taxes granted to a special interest.

Who compensates the oil companies when they drill dry wells? No one and that is the way it should be. But when they hit oil you think you and everyone else deserves a cut? Why don't you just propose nationalizing oil companies while you are at it, you already are only a breath away from doing so?

Show me the specific loophole granted just to oil companies to avoid paying taxes. This is just some rhetoric the democrats drummed up because they know their are people like you, dumb enough to buy into it. Screw them evil oil companies who make about 2 cents a gallon of refined gas compared to the 48 cents the government takes per gallon.

More bad news coming for Democrats and Obama- all that government cheese is running out-

An extraordinary amount of personal income is coming directly from the government.

Close to $2 of every $10 that went into Americans’ wallets last year were payments like jobless benefits, food stamps, Social Security and disability, according to an analysis by Moody’s Analytics. In states hit hard by the downturn, like Arizona, Florida, Michigan and Ohio, residents derived even more of their income from the government.

By the end of this year, however, many of those dollars are going to disappear, with the expiration of extended benefits intended to help people cope with the lingering effects of the recession. Moody’s Analytics estimates $37 billion will be drained from the nation’s pocketbooks this year.

Read the whole story....

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Economy-Faces-a-Jolt-as-nytimes-3470532037.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=4&asset=&ccode=

chickaree wrote:

conifermtman wrote:

chickaree wrote: Both parties are beholden to special interests. Rather than casting blame do YOU call your representative to complain? Refuse to vote for representatives who fail to move to end these abuses? What I see is a group of people who excuse the abuses when their party commits them, but points fingers accusingly when the other party does. Talk about hypocritical behavior. We have to both cut spending AND raise revenue to pay for stuff that we have already bought.

Then join the Tea Party. We already do that. Do you really think we have a revenue problem?

We obviously do and only selfish fools will say we don't. If my foolish spending puts my family deeply into debt I not only have to stop buying Range Rovers, but I also need to get a night job. Too many in our society are not carrying their fair share of the load. In fact the middle class carries almost all of it. The lower classes need to give up some of their entitlements while the upper classes need to give up some of their tax breaks. When the Tea party acknowledges this reality perhaps then I'll join. As long as they slavishly carry water for the wealthy and the transnational corporations that don't contribute to our national well being I'm just not interested.

TEA(Taxed Enough Already) party, get it? At what point do you think a person should stop being taxed? 15%, 20%, 30%, 50%? What exactly is paying your fair share? Anything over 18% is obscene to me. I don't know how one group of people can say another group of people should pay more as a percentage of their income because they make more. Their is something morally wrong with that.

BearMtnHIB wrote: More bad news coming for Democrats and Obama- all that government cheese is running out-

An extraordinary amount of personal income is coming directly from the government.

Close to $2 of every $10 that went into Americans’ wallets last year were payments like jobless benefits, food stamps, Social Security and disability, according to an analysis by Moody’s Analytics. In states hit hard by the downturn, like Arizona, Florida, Michigan and Ohio, residents derived even more of their income from the government.

By the end of this year, however, many of those dollars are going to disappear, with the expiration of extended benefits intended to help people cope with the lingering effects of the recession. Moody’s Analytics estimates $37 billion will be drained from the nation’s pocketbooks this year.

Read the whole story....

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Economy-Faces-a-Jolt-as-nytimes-3470532037.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=4&asset=&ccode=

That's not bad news, that's Barry's insurance policy to get reelected, he will blame it all on the Republicans if they don't renew those programs. Hopefully, Boehner is smarter than that and doesn't take the bait.

chickaree - I think conifermtman is right, you have been bamboozled by the left.

There really is no such thing as a corporate tax because every dollar of overhead that corporations pay has to be passed down to the consumer, and 90% of the time that means the middle class. The left would like you to think that the oil companies are evil, but the government makes many times the profit the oil company makes just in taxes.

Oil is the biggest revenue generator for the feds.

The "blame the rich" agenda that the left keeps harping on over and over is also just a tatic to get the average joe and jane to think of job creators and the wealthy as evil. You could tax them at 100%- and still not even put a dent into the big government debt. You could steal all of their money- and still not even get a start on paying off what has already been spent. You have to acknowledge that this is a big government problem.

This mess we are in was not created by corporations, not created by those who earn a living, not created by those who provide jobs- it was created by those who advocate big government. Don't buy into their class warfare tatic- the rich did not get us into 14 trillion of debt, the government did that!

SS109 wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote: As I pointed out in another thread, closing a single loophole that allows 25 hedge fund managers to claim the bulk of their income at capital gains would raise $44 billion over ten years, which is certainly much more than what would be gained by eliminating funding for NPR. Repeal of the production tax subsidy for oil companies would save another $20 Billion over ten years. Closing other corporate tax loopholes would save taxpayers over $1 Trillion over the next ten years. All this could be done without raising taxes, merely closing special interest loopholes. Yet the Republicans refuse to consider this.

But why didn't the Dems close those loopholes when they owned Congress? Maybe because they use these as talking points only? Are just as beholden to their rich donors? Are rich guys themselves? Senate and Congressional Dems are much wealthier than the new TEA Party Republicans. :bash So you can continue to bash the Republicans but clearly the Dems don't want this either.

Or maybe they know trickle down works? Rich people are consumers too.

Exactly! The facts are that the dems had total control of all three houses for two years while this recession was going on and they never touched the loop holes. Why? Because they didnt' want it either until they found they could use it as a campaign issue. In fact Obama said raising taxes in a recession is a bad idea. “First of all, he’s right. Normally, you don’t raise taxes in a recession, which is why we haven’t and why we’ve instead cut taxes. So I guess what I’d say to Scott is – his economics are right. You don’t raise taxes in a recession. We haven’t raised taxes in a recession.”

Now he is refusing to budge on something he stated just two years ago that we SHOULD NOT do. He is clueless! It is all a game to him using our economy as a pawn in his campaign.

chickaree wrote: We obviously do and only selfish fools will say we don't. If my foolish spending puts my family deeply into debt I not only have to stop buying Range Rovers, but I also need to get a night job. Too many in our society are not carrying their fair share of the load. In fact the middle class carries almost all of it. The lower classes need to give up some of their entitlements while the upper classes need to give up some of their tax breaks. When the Tea party acknowledges this reality perhaps then I'll join. As long as they slavishly carry water for the wealthy and the transnational corporations that don't contribute to our national well being I'm just not interested.

That statement might be true of excise taxes (gas, tires and such) but it is certainly not the case on the privilege to be employed/have employee taxes that are collected, nor is it true of the income taxes. The evil rich companies pay as much in privilege taxes (they have to match whatever contributions the middle class have taken out of their checks for the middle class workers they employ) and those evil rich people already contribute income taxes at a 2:1 ratio compared to their earnings (20% of earnings versus 40% of income taxes).

I agree with you that we have too many not carrying their fair share of the load, we just disagree as to which group that applies to. The evil rich companies and people are not only carrying themselves, they are carrying a whole lot of other people who in reality are being carried instead of carrying anything.

BearMtnHIB wrote: chickaree - I think conifermtman is right, you have been bamboozled by the left.

There really is no such thing as a corporate tax because every dollar of overhead that corporations pay has to be passed down to the consumer, and 90% of the time that means the middle class. The left would like you to think that the oil companies are evil, but the government makes many times the profit the oil company makes just in taxes.

Oil is the biggest revenue generator for the feds.

The "blame the rich" agenda that the left keeps harping on over and over is also just a tatic to get the average joe and jane to think of job creators and the wealthy as evil. You could tax them at 100%- and still not even put a dent into the big government debt. You could steal all of their money- and still not even get a start on paying off what has already been spent. You have to acknowledge that this is a big government problem.

This mess we are in was not created by corporations, not created by those who earn a living, not created by those who provide jobs- it was created by those who advocate big government. Don't buy into their class warfare tatic- the rich did not get us into 14 trillion of debt, the government did that!

I know the talking point that corporate taxes are just passed onto the consumer is a standard Repub talking point but it isn't true a lot of the time.
If US corporations are competing with overseas companies, collecting taxes for the Feds might make them lose market share and have to layoff employees.

So increasing the tax rate and closing those loopholes might close domestic petrol development and those well paying US jobs will disappear.

Americans will just buy gasoline and oil from Mexico, Canada, & Arab nations.

One way to solve the fracking problem right?

Something the Dog Said wrote: As I pointed out in another thread, closing a single loophole that allows 25 hedge fund managers to claim the bulk of their income at capital gains would raise $44 billion over ten years, which is certainly much more than what would be gained by eliminating funding for NPR. Repeal of the production tax subsidy for oil companies would save another $20 Billion over ten years. Closing other corporate tax loopholes would save taxpayers over $1 Trillion over the next ten years. All this could be done without raising taxes, merely closing special interest loopholes. Yet the Republicans refuse to consider this.

That is 100 billion a year. 1/15 of what we will borrow this year alone.