BearMtnHIB wrote: I contend that the recession we are in would have lasted less than a year and would have been over and done with by the end of 2009 had government just let the market work through it.
You can contend all you want, but you'd still be wrong as hell. Anyone who thinks the market would have "worked out" the catastrophic losses in the securities and housing markets in "less than a year" lives in such a fantasy world as to qualify for his own character in Disneyland.
Evidence exists in many countries where the recession lasted less than a year. I could list all the countries but it would take a while.
The free market would have had the bad companies go belly up - instead of bailed out, and their assets sold off to well managed companies.
The housing market is the same way- it would have found a real and profound bottom very quickly- and would have started up again in record time. The governments intervention is what's dragging this out into many years.
No faster - more efficient - correction mechanism exists than the free market when it's allowed to operate.
This recession would have been over and done with long ago- and our homes would be worth more today without the interventions and bailouts, and our massive debt would be trillions less. I also think employment would be in much much better shape without any government involvement.
One needs no further proof than to look at India, the South Pacific rim and south american countries because in those places the recession hit hard, but lasted less than 1 year and those economies turned around and are now booming.
One thing is for sure- the way that the government is handling it is not working at all, there's plenty of proof of that!
Wow- there's lots of good video to support my posts coming out today.
Lots of good capitalists have good advice the day after our president proposes yet another socialist government spending spree.
BearMtnHIB wrote: Evidence exists in many countries where the recession lasted less than a year. I could list all the countries but it would take a while.
Recessions in other countries weren't caused by the same things that caused ours. Particularly in the two examples you gave in an earlier post. (India had a collapsed housing bubble? South America cooked up gigantic securities frauds that popped in their faces to the tune of trillions of dollars in losses? Not that I've heard.)
The free market would have had the bad companies go belly up - instead of bailed out, and their assets sold off to well managed companies.
The housing market is the same way- it would have found a real and profound bottom very quickly- and would have started up again in record time. The governments intervention is what's dragging this out into many years.
A case could be made that it would have been preferable to let the banksters go down without a bail out. But only in an utopian fantasy would have that have worked out as smoothly as you seem to think.
Your comments about the housing market demonstrate profound ignorance of the troubles there. I won't even bother correcting all your misconceptions in that regard, suffice it to say that never in ten million years would it have just blithely "started up again in record time", with or without government involvement.
No faster - more efficient - correction mechanism exists than the free market when it's allowed to operate.
Again, in your utopian fantasies. Not necessarily in real life.
I won't bother responding to the rest of your comments. You're stuck in a a world that doesn't exist, and like all true believers, no amount of reality will penetrate through a wall of faith-based nonsense. And the belief that "if only" government had stayed out of the situation we would have recovered in less than a year is right up there with belief in the tooth fairy.
Again, in your utopian fantasies. Not necessarily in real life.
I never said it would be smooth- so don't put words in my mouth. I said it would be the most efficient, and the fastest way out - letting the free market work it out. I also said it would be over and done with by now.
Like the guy on the video in my last post says - you either believe in capitalism and free markets- or you believe in centrally managed economies.
Those who believe in central (government) management of economy are referred to as socialists and communists. Which one are you?
Don't deny that your beliefs place more confidence in government managed economies than in free markets, I've had to endure your left leaning hot air for far too long!
Bear, I believe you may have FORGOTTEN......let me refresh your memory......WHO'S watch was it that ok'd the TARP(in it's first form).
Benny,Bush,Paulson,Geithner,Summers APPROVED that little piece of legislation. They were ADAMANT that we would fall off the face of the earth IF it wasn't approved. Letting the markets,banks,financials find it's own "work out" wasn't the game plan.....it's been down hill
ever since. Catch up is NOT something you can do when you are ALREADY fubared.(for those of you who do not know the phrase...it stands for f***ed up beyond all recognition.)
homeagain wrote: [ It was on NO ONE"S radar until AIG hit the ground and smashed into dust.
Speak for yourself on that one. What was happening to this country was plain to see for those with their eyes open.
Those of us with buckets firmly planted on our heads were blissful in our ignorance.
I understood in a VERY vague way that the fubar was going to be spectacular,I just could not wrap my mind around the utter ugliness of it.....(when I said NO ONE, I meant Benny,Bush,Summer,Geithner and the other so called experts.)
homeagain- The first bailout was also wrong and should not have happened. It was a bullsh** lie that the economy was going to fall off the face of the earth.
Did you believe them at the time? I didn't. Do you think what they did was wrong? I do. They stabbed the American market system in the back, and comitted the worst offense- throwing out the most important rule of free markets with the bath water- moral hazard. They called it "too big to fail"- it was bullcrap!
Obama is doing the same thing- only amplified by 5 times. It was wrong to do it in the last few months of Bush's watch, and even more wrong to do more of it now.
Centrally managed economies have a long established record throughout history of failure- and the results are always miserable for those unfortunate citizens who get caught under it.
That's where we are now- near the edge of collapse.
