My perspective: Time to look at ourselves

chickaree wrote:

FredHayek wrote: I belive everyone thinks they are entitled, from people demanding a living wage, from corporations demanding tax subsidies to move jobs from one town to another, from the rich writing themselves more loopholes to Fannie & Freddie exec earning millions driving their companies into the ditch.
And because of all of this, the Feds are spending 66% more than they are taking in.

This. To highlight anyone group based on partisanship is foolish and destructive. It is a mistake to seperate ourselves from the government. WE are the government. If our government is inefficient, corrupt or intrusive it is because we voted them there. Take responsibility and stop whining about OWS or the TEA party. At least they got off their dead asses to protest the issues rampant in society. I'm sick of all the divisive bullsh*t. We are all Americans. A house divided against itself cannot stand. If you are one of those who stand on one side of the partisan divide curling your lip at the other side then YOU are one of the architects of our destruction. Take responsibility dammit.

You've been fooled into believing that voting the "right people" into office will solve the problems. My opinion... anyone running for office, local, state or federal will eventually be of use to the Political Class. For the few that don't already have ulterior motives, or for those that get into office and don't "play the game," those will not be of any real effect in their particular position.

We are not the government any longer. We are given the illusion that we can make a difference... but there is no difference. "Read my lips... no new taxes" to "hope and change" have not accomplished anything. We slip deeper and deeper into a debt based society, under the thumb of politicians, special interest and big money... otherwise know as the Political Class. There is a 99%, but they are not only the poor or middle class. The 99% are all the citizens who are not directly part of the Political Class... it doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, hard working or lazy... there should be no divide between the 99%... the 1% are not Wall Street, they are not the rich... they are the plutocrats and kleptocrats and their crony sidekicks.

Voting right or left is not the answer, it's broke and we need a "clean sweep," wash the whole thing out and disinfect. Rinse and repeat when necessary.

The Liberals GOP Twin wrote:

Rockdoc Franz wrote: Our nation is crumbling from within not because our politicians are a total failure,

[snip]
Divided we shall fall.

Right... our politicians are certainly not a total failure. Our politicians on both sides of the aisle are a complete success. They have successfully robbed us blind, ingratiated themselves with power and money and have established a political class that is in no way working for any of us. The real 1% are the politicians, all politicians, federal, state and local and their special interest and corporate cronies. The real 99% are the rest of us. The Occupy Movement should shut down the silly camps all over the country and converge on Washington. That's what should be occupied... Washington DC. Go to the source.

But that won't happen because we are divided and we shall waste our time and chase partisan phantoms as we work as deflectors for the political class, taking focus off the real problems.

My sentiments. Thanks for the clarity. I also agree with the rinse and disinfect. That will turn out to be smash mouth revolt. Too long have people fooled themselves into believing they are the government. You have it right. The political class is running things on their own and could give a royal s**t about the citizens they are supposed to represent.

I'm just sitting here scratching my head over how the "1%" went from being the "idle rich" and the "leisure class" to the only people with a work ethic in the minds of some?

Also wondering how anyone thinks the rich could be getting richer since their profits depend on the work of those lazy, entitled bums known as the 99%?

Ayn Rand was a poisonous writer, but I wasn't aware that the entire water supply of the United States of America has been dosed with it. Yet it's almost the only explanation.

Rockdoc -

A little more than a decade ago, an astronomer taught me a lesson

---

"mirrors are better than magnifiers."

We were at Yerkes observatory - home of the world's largest refractor telescope.

I was complaining about a political scandal (I forget which - but you get the point).

My colleague stared at me and said, "Mirrors are better than magnifiers...."
"Huh?......." (me)

(him) "We're standing next to the biggest refractor telescope in the world --- and you'd think this is a powerful telescope - but guess what......... look over there, you'll see a telescope that weighs 75 pounds, and fits in the trunk of a car...... Guess which one is more powerful?........."

(the smaller telescope - a reflecting telescope).

My colleague wasn't really talking to me about telescopes, though - he was talking about problems, challenges, issues, etc.

I might complain about the national debt - but if I have a balance on my charge card - there's a good chance that I've contributed to the cause.....

It's the scientific version of Christ's teaching about the speck in your brother's eye, and the log in your own.

All of this is to say - I tend to agree. The political process tends to externalize issues. We tend to look for the "bad guy" - and it must be someone other than ourself.

sub-prime mortgages --- oh it must be the greedy originators. Wait a minute - what about the people who signed the dotted line? Unemployment --- oh it must be migrants stealing our jobs...... I'm sure I can find other examples, but you get the point.

I'm not much into demonizing Mexicans, Muslims, or the media.

xxxx dupe

There is so much to agree and contemplate here, but the key is the title. Time to look at ourselves. as an employer 99% percent are not lazy, however I found you can't give jobs to about 4-5 % of the people.
So on a few points people have brought up;

High paid athletes-who buys the tickets?
Politicians, who elects them?
Unskilled workers-who educated them?
student loans-who took them out?
buying to much house-who signed the contract?
Variable mortgages with balloon payments-see above.
kids who expect to be entitled-who raised them?

I could go on but whats the use if don't look in the mirror and see what we have created.

Bear,to make a point one sometimes resorts to overstatement. The 99% is simply shock treatment as so many identify with that multi faceted crowd. It's not definitive. I think I tired to ameliorate my statement somewhat. I'm well aware that there are hard working people out there. While some call me clueless, they have no idea that what I write and think about is based on personal experience from dirt floored house, ditch digger on up. My point is that if you want to get ahead, normal work habits alone will not allow you to move upwards. In fact, some have pointed out, the deck is even stacked against the hardest workers. I however don't buy into that. Where there is a will there is a way. Foremost as you noted, is a positive attitude of can do and if things fail, the first place to look is at ourselves. That is how I live my life, daily trying to learn from my many failures, so I can continue to move forward. Failure is simply a reminder that one needs to approach something in a different way.

The creation you speak of is ours for sure. We are more than willing to pay top dollar for entertainment, yet can not even conceive of doing likewise to an equally gifted educator. It's a reflection we see in the mirror showing us our true values. We (highly generalized and I'm included) play lip service about the value of education, but fail to back up all that bluster. Also, if the workers are unskilled, it is their duty, not someone else's, to seek the education or skill sets and learn what they desire by putting for an effort with some passion. Yes, we do not have far to look when it comes to many things in life, whether it's the way our kids behave or the politicians we elect. We've had a hand in it all. The only way I can see changing much of it is for every person to start with themselves. The only thing required is brutal honesty, no justifications, as they are simply worn out excuses.

While looking at ourselves is a good starting point, some things like our government I do not believe can be fixed in conventional ways any longer. A different approach is needed that ultimately we too will need to embrace. It always comes back to us.

bailey bud wrote: Rockdoc -

A little more than a decade ago, an astronomer taught me a lesson

---

"mirrors are better than magnifiers."

We were at Yerkes observatory - home of the world's largest refractor telescope.

I was complaining about a political scandal (I forget which - but you get the point).

My colleague stared at me and said, "Mirrors are better than magnifiers...."
"Huh?......." (me)

(him) "We're standing next to the biggest refractor telescope in the world --- and you'd think this is a powerful telescope - but guess what......... look over there, you'll see a telescope that weighs 75 pounds, and fits in the trunk of a car...... Guess which one is more powerful?........."

(the smaller telescope - a reflecting telescope).

My colleague wasn't really talking to me about telescopes, though - he was talking about problems, challenges, issues, etc.

I might complain about the national debt - but if I have a balance on my charge card - there's a good chance that I've contributed to the cause.....

It's the scientific version of Christ's teaching about the speck in your brother's eye, and the log in your own.

All of this is to say - I tend to agree. The political process tends to externalize issues. We tend to look for the "bad guy" - and it must be someone other than ourself.

sub-prime mortgages --- oh it must be the greedy originators. Wait a minute - what about the people who signed the dotted line? Unemployment --- oh it must be migrants stealing our jobs...... I'm sure I can find other examples, but you get the point.

I'm not much into demonizing Mexicans, Muslims, or the media.

The problem with a mirror is it shows you who you really are. You are reflected with your strengths and weaknesses, Successes and failures. Sometime we just refuse to look in the mirror because we don't like what we see.

Rockdoc Franz wrote: Bear,to make a point one sometimes resorts to overstatement. The 99% is simply shock treatment as so many identify with that multi faceted crowd. It's not definitive. I think I tired to ameliorate my statement somewhat. I'm well aware that there are hard working people out there. While some call me clueless, they have no idea that what I write and think about is based on personal experience from dirt floored house, ditch digger on up. My point is that if you want to get ahead, normal work habits alone will not allow you to move upwards. In fact, some have pointed out, the deck is even stacked against the hardest workers. I however don't buy into that. Where there is a will there is a way. Foremost as you noted, is a positive attitude of can do and if things fail, the first place to look is at ourselves. That is how I live my life, daily trying to learn from my many failures, so I can continue to move forward. Failure is simply a reminder that one needs to approach something in a different way.

The creation you speak of is ours for sure. We are more than willing to pay top dollar for entertainment, yet can not even conceive of doing likewise to an equally gifted educator. It's a reflection we see in the mirror showing us our true values. We (highly generalized and I'm included) play lip service about the value of education, but fail to back up all that bluster. Also, if the workers are unskilled, it is their duty, not someone else's, to seek the education or skill sets and learn what they desire by putting for an effort with some passion. Yes, we do not have far to look when it comes to many things in life, whether it's the way our kids behave or the politicians we elect. We've had a hand in it all. The only way I can see changing much of it is for every person to start with themselves. The only thing required is brutal honesty, no justifications, as they are simply worn out excuses.

While looking at ourselves is a good starting point, some things like our government I do not believe can be fixed in conventional ways any longer. A different approach is needed that ultimately we too will need to embrace. It always comes back to us.

Rocdoc we are way more alike than you think and I would never call you clueless.

I started around 12 mowing lawns for spending money- but my first real on the books job- I was a dishwasher. I don't even think they offer those jobs to legal kids anymore- or maybe the kids these days won't do those jobs. Probably a combination of both.

If I had been dumb enough to accept dishwasher as my career - I might have developed the attitude that "I owe my soul to the company store". But I never accepted that - I moved on and I moved up. At one point I knew that working in a resturant was not going to get me where I wanted to go- and I learned more valuable skills.

The company store did not own me- I own myself. I made better things happen- instead of whining about my situation- I changed it.

Now I have been there and I know what it takes to make things better, wasting my time trying to squeeze value out of a worthless skill was not for me- I wanted more leverage against the economy.

Those who think the economy will change for them instead of changing themselves to suit the economy are just pissing into the wind. The next step after that fails- is to expect the government to take care of you. The next step is to expect the taxpayers to take care of you.

I think that Printsmith is right- the government has become the biggest threat to American prosperity- just like the irresponsible parents have raised entitled kids - the government has overreached in scope.

"We can't buy the line that government is our enemy and the market is our friend ... Government is us. Government is our institutions. Government is how we make social and public choices working together to forge common ground ... We've got to retrieve our citizenship." -Benjamin Barber

Sorry I have to pick on a posters sig line here - but the above quote is just dead wrong. Government has indeed become our enemy and it no longer serves the citizen- it has become corrupted and the choices it makes are no longer our choices. We can not find common ground. It has become our caretaker with ever expanding laws, rules, regulations and taxes.

We can not get back to prosperity by voting for Pelosi, or Reid, or Romney. Government has to match it's size with the money it gets now- or with even less money than it gets now and that's the only way. It has to give up the notion that it is our caretaker- we are capable of taking responsibility for ourselves and can take care of ourselves.

Our ideology does matter- the people we vote for does matter. If we elect the proper leaders - the problem of massive government can be addressed. We can not allow the "government is the answer" ideology to prevail or nothing will ever change- in fact it will get worse. If you like the direction that the economy and the country are heading- keep it up- keep voting for the same corrupt ideology, but if you want things to get better, we all better accept the fact that we must abandon this path to a socialist welfare state.

We do need to look at ourselves and do what is best for America- not what we think we are entitled to FROM government.