U.S. soldier kills 16 Afghan civilians

It is an OMG moment........I have to AGREE with PS..We are REQUIRED to get the f....k out.......since we do not/can not wrap our minds
around the TRIBAL concept.....this will continue into infinity and we need to cut our losses and bug out....NOW.

homeagain wrote: It is an OMG moment........I have to AGREE with PS..We are REQUIRED to get the f....k out.......since we do not/can not wrap our minds
around the TRIBAL concept.....this will continue into infinity and we need to cut our losses and bug out....NOW.

Is this the same America that took tens of thousands of deaths trying to keep South Vietnam free?

PrintSmith wrote: Never meant to excuse what he did Chief - I'm simply trying to understand what might have driven him to leave behind everything our culture and his training has sought to instill in him since he entered the world and choose instead to conduct himself in this manner.

PS - the moment we can actually "understand" what might have driven him to this type of action is a dangerous thing in my opinion. There is no understanding this type of motivation, "tribal" or "civilized".

PrintSmith wrote: Never meant to excuse what he did Chief - I'm simply trying to understand what might have driven him to leave behind everything our culture and his training has sought to instill in him since he entered the world and choose instead to conduct himself in this manner.

I understood that PS, and you and quite a few others including myself, would like to know what caused this. So far I have heard(all rumors until proven) that he had a TBI, and was also having problem reintergrating at home after his 3rd deployment from Iraq. What gets me is there were signs of problems and no one in the chain of command could see this. Why did the sentry not report him leaving the compound. There is just way to many things that went wrong here that could have or may have prevented this.

You'd better be willing to invest the effort to understand why Z. The general government of this union and its citizens have sent hundreds of thousands into that tribal environment trained in the methods and given the tools to do violence. They are learning other things about survival in a tribal environment that only experience can impart. Those many thousands will not look kindly upon those that sent them into that environment simply tossing them aside like used dishrags after their perceived usefulness has ended. We owe them a debt, a conscious examination of what our requests have resulted in is but the beginning, that morally must be paid.

Looks like the Afghan people knows who to blame this on...

Thousands of people took to the streets in eastern Afghanistan on Tuesday to protest the killing of 16 civilians by a U.S. soldier, burning an effigy of Barack Obama and calling for the killer to be tried in Afghanistan.

Demonstrators in the city of Jalalabad chanted "Death to America -- Death to Obama" and blocked the main highway to Afghanistan's capital, Kabul, Britain's Daily Telegraph reported.

"Jihad (holy war) is the only way to get the invading Americans out of Afghanistan," one banner read, according to the newspaper.

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... f-massacre

It ain't Bush's fault anymore... Obama.. you own this (giddy laugh).

And what is the administration trying to do...

On a trip to Asia and the Middle East, Panetta seemed resigned to the fact that, as long as U.S. troops are in Afghanistan, bad things are bound to happen.

"War is hell," said the defense chief. "These kinds of events and incidents are going to take place. They've taken place in any war; they're terrible events. And this is not the first of those events, and it probably won't be the last."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505266_162- ... h-penalty/

Trying to distance themselves from the incident. I'm waiting for them to blame the whole massacre on Bush. Blame Bush Syndrome in 5,4,3,2,1...

PrintSmith wrote: You'd better be willing to invest the effort to understand why Z. The general government of this union and its citizens have sent hundreds of thousands into that tribal environment trained in the methods and given the tools to do violence. They are learning other things about survival in a tribal environment that only experience can impart. Those many thousands will not look kindly upon those that sent them into that environment simply tossing them aside like used dishrags after their perceived usefulness has ended. We owe them a debt, a conscious examination of what our requests have resulted in is but the beginning, that morally must be paid.

PS, you misunderstand my posit. I believe my personal experience lends me a whole lot more knowledge and understanding of these types of events than you realize. And, I am not going to get into another one of your detailed arguments as to a rationale for sending troops into Afghanistan (which, if one were to analyze closely, would be no different than sending them into places such as Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and other places where our "fear" of tribalism, Communism, or some other bogeyman threat supersedes rational thought). Rather, I will suggest that investigating and determining the root cause (mental illness, PTSD, bullying, etc.) is far different than actually understanding what goes through the mind of anyone suffering from that root cause when they go on their rampages. Oftentimes, the perpetrators either cannot explain this themselves, or they commit suicide with no logical explanation left behind, or they say they heard voices, or something else that you, I, and other "saner" individuals shake our heads at, scoff that they're making it all up, or something similar.

There are already those who question what our requests have resulted in in virtually every combat situation we, as a nation, have involved our troops in. That's the beauty of studying history - to learn from our past mistakes, and, hopefully, to use that knowledge so we don't make the same mistakes again. Apparently, those historical lessons have been lost on those who make the decisions that place our men and women of the armed forces into harms way. I, personally, look at both the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as perfect examples of that "willful ignorance" on the part of whomever made the original decision(s), and of that "willful ignorance" on the part of whomever is continuing to keep our troops in harms way. No matter the combat situation, cultures invariably differ. Your inference to tribalism is no different. In my opinion, violence begets violence. It's a vicious cycle. The Soviet Union found that out on an epic scale in Afghanistan prior to our involvement. Why didn't we learn from their mistake(s)? :Whistle

ZHawke wrote:

PrintSmith wrote: You'd better be willing to invest the effort to understand why Z. The general government of this union and its citizens have sent hundreds of thousands into that tribal environment trained in the methods and given the tools to do violence. They are learning other things about survival in a tribal environment that only experience can impart. Those many thousands will not look kindly upon those that sent them into that environment simply tossing them aside like used dishrags after their perceived usefulness has ended. We owe them a debt, a conscious examination of what our requests have resulted in is but the beginning, that morally must be paid.

PS, you misunderstand my posit. I believe my personal experience lends me a whole lot more knowledge and understanding of these types of events than you realize. And, I am not going to get into another one of your detailed arguments as to a rationale for sending troops into Afghanistan (which, if one were to analyze closely, would be no different than sending them into places such as Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and other places where our "fear" of tribalism, Communism, or some other bogeyman threat supersedes rational thought). Rather, I will suggest that investigating and determining the root cause (mental illness, PTSD, bullying, etc.) is far different than actually understanding what goes through the mind of anyone suffering from that root cause when they go on their rampages. Oftentimes, the perpetrators either cannot explain this themselves, or they commit suicide with no logical explanation left behind, or they say they heard voices, or something else that you, I, and other "saner" individuals shake our heads at, scoff that they're making it all up, or something similar.

There are already those who question what our requests have resulted in in virtually every combat situation we, as a nation, have involved our troops in. That's the beauty of studying history - to learn from our past mistakes, and, hopefully, to use that knowledge so we don't make the same mistakes again. Apparently, those historical lessons have been lost on those who make the decisions that place our men and women of the armed forces into harms way. I, personally, look at both the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as perfect examples of that "willful ignorance" on the part of whomever made the original decision(s), and of that "willful ignorance" on the part of whomever is continuing to keep our troops in harms way. No matter the combat situation, cultures invariably differ. Your inference to tribalism is no different. In my opinion, violence begets violence. It's a vicious cycle. The Soviet Union found that out on an epic scale in Afghanistan prior to our involvement. Why didn't we learn from their mistake(s)? :Whistle

You know what you misunderstand. War is hell, the idea of war is to break things and kill things, and although we may constantly modernize the way we do that, nothing changes the basic rules. And that's human nature, built in, genetic and all the philosophizing and utopian platitudes will not modify the truth. It's only politicians (who try to use war to give an advantage to their grabbing power and money) and ideologues (who have spirited discussions in coffee shops or Occupy encampments) that think otherwise. The politicians are dangerous, the ideologues are just annoying.

The Liberals GOP Twin wrote: You know what you misunderstand. War is hell, the idea of war is to break things and kill things, and although we may constantly modernize the way we do that, nothing changes the basic rules. And that's human nature, built in, genetic and all the philosophizing and utopian platitudes will not modify the truth. It's only politicians (who try to use war to give an advantage to their grabbing power and money) and ideologues (who have spirited discussions in coffee shops or Occupy encampments) that think otherwise. The politicians are dangerous, the ideologues are just annoying.

I misunderstand nothing. You misunderstand everything. Where was it posted that war isn't hell, that the idea of war isn't to break things and kill things? It wasn't. Until you stop your inane attempts to "politicize" everything and giddily laugh while trying to blame Obama and his administration for the savage act(s) of an obviously mentally deranged individual (be it from PTSD or some other root cause that made that person snap), your argument(s) have been, and will continue to be, invalid.