Forget the Fiscal Cliff

Something the Dog Said wrote:

pineinthegrass wrote: President Obama counts Social Security as part of the $1.3 trillion deficit in his own report. How do you explain that away?

I don't have to explain that away since President Obama did not count SS as part of the deficit. That is just another conservative lie. What is contributing to the deficit is that Congress MUST pay the SS Trust fund back the money it "borrowed" from the Fund backed by Treasury issued instruments. SS did not contribute to the deficit, as has been pointed out time and time again, that Congress "borrowed" the surplus from the Fund and now must pay it back is the issue as it relates to the deficit. The GOP wants to "create" a larger surplus by denying benefits to those who paid into the Fund so that it can then "borrow" that surplus to pay for tax breaks to the wealthiest two percent. It also appears that the GOP wants to default on the loans at the expense of those who now should be able to draw their benefits but the GOP wants to make that even more difficult.

In case you can't read, here is the link for Obama's own report from whitehouse.gov again. Table S-4 on page 208. Social Security is counted as part of the $1.3 trillion deficit.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/budget.pdf

Edited to add:

And now the "conservative lie" comes from factcheck.org, the Washington Post, and whitehouse.gov? Amazing!

pineinthegrass wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:

pineinthegrass wrote: President Obama counts Social Security as part of the $1.3 trillion deficit in his own report. How do you explain that away?

I don't have to explain that away since President Obama did not count SS as part of the deficit. That is just another conservative lie. What is contributing to the deficit is that Congress MUST pay the SS Trust fund back the money it "borrowed" from the Fund backed by Treasury issued instruments. SS did not contribute to the deficit, as has been pointed out time and time again, that Congress "borrowed" the surplus from the Fund and now must pay it back is the issue as it relates to the deficit. The GOP wants to "create" a larger surplus by denying benefits to those who paid into the Fund so that it can then "borrow" that surplus to pay for tax breaks to the wealthiest two percent. It also appears that the GOP wants to default on the loans at the expense of those who now should be able to draw their benefits but the GOP wants to make that even more difficult.

In case you can't read, here is the link for Obama's own report from whitehouse.gov again. Table S-4 on page 208. Social Security is counted as part of the $1.3 trillion deficit.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/budget.pdf

Edited to add:

And now the "conservative lie" comes from factcheck.org, the Washington Post, and whitehouse.gov? Amazing!

What is Amazing is the lack of comprehension on the part of conservatives. Table S-4 of the whitehouse.gov report is not the deficit, but the baseline of receipts collected. Gee, that must be embarrassing. As has been pointed out ad nausem, and supported by the factcheck.org, Washington Post, and whitehouse.gov, is that SS does not contribute to the deficit. AT ALL. The repayments of the loans from the SS Trust Fund does contribute to the deficit, but that is the fault of Congress for "borrowing" from the SS Trust Fund surplus. Congress does NOT budget to pay SS benefits, but must budget to pay back the Fund so that it can pay benefits. SS benefits are not paid from the Treasury, but from the SS Trust Fund. The SS Trust fund is funded by payroll taxes, not by congressional appropriations. The only congressional appropriations are loan repayments. If you had actually read the factcheck.org, Washington Post and whitehouse.gov, you would understand this. They do not contradict my statements, they back it up.

Think you can understand that?

Once again, SS does not contribute to the deficit. That is a conservative lie.

Something the Dog Said wrote:

pineinthegrass wrote:

Something the Dog Said wrote:

pineinthegrass wrote: President Obama counts Social Security as part of the $1.3 trillion deficit in his own report. How do you explain that away?

I don't have to explain that away since President Obama did not count SS as part of the deficit. That is just another conservative lie. What is contributing to the deficit is that Congress MUST pay the SS Trust fund back the money it "borrowed" from the Fund backed by Treasury issued instruments. SS did not contribute to the deficit, as has been pointed out time and time again, that Congress "borrowed" the surplus from the Fund and now must pay it back is the issue as it relates to the deficit. The GOP wants to "create" a larger surplus by denying benefits to those who paid into the Fund so that it can then "borrow" that surplus to pay for tax breaks to the wealthiest two percent. It also appears that the GOP wants to default on the loans at the expense of those who now should be able to draw their benefits but the GOP wants to make that even more difficult.

In case you can't read, here is the link for Obama's own report from whitehouse.gov again. Table S-4 on page 208. Social Security is counted as part of the $1.3 trillion deficit.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/budget.pdf

Edited to add:

And now the "conservative lie" comes from factcheck.org, the Washington Post, and whitehouse.gov? Amazing!

What is Amazing is the lack of comprehension on the part of conservatives. Table S-4 of the whitehouse.gov report is not the deficit, but the baseline of receipts collected. Gee, that must be embarrassing. As has been pointed out ad nausem, and supported by the factcheck.org, Washington Post, and whitehouse.gov, is that SS does not contribute to the deficit. AT ALL. The repayments of the loans from the SS Trust Fund does contribute to the deficit, but that is the fault of Congress for "borrowing" from the SS Trust Fund surplus. Congress does NOT budget to pay SS benefits, but must budget to pay back the Fund so that it can pay benefits. SS benefits are not paid from the Treasury, but from the SS Trust Fund. The SS Trust fund is funded by payroll taxes, not by congressional appropriations. The only congressional appropriations are loan repayments. If you had actually read the factcheck.org, Washington Post and whitehouse.gov, you would understand this. They do not contradict my statements, they back it up.

Think you can understand that?

Once again, SS does not contribute to the deficit. That is a conservative lie.

Supported by factcheck and the Washington Post??? Did you even read their articles? They say SS does contribute to the deficit.

And Table S-4 does call it the "deficit". You are just making stuff up now.

How about a Huffington Post "conservative lie" link too?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/12/the-us-federal-budget-deficit-cbo_n_1144648.html

Edited to add the Huffington Post deficit graph...

pineinthegrass wrote: Supported by factcheck and the Washington Post??? Did you even read their articles? They say SS does contribute to the deficit.

And Table S-4 does call it the "deficit". You are just making stuff up now.

How about a Huffington Post "conservative lie" link too?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/12/the-us-federal-budget-deficit-cbo_n_1144648.html

Wow, you enjoy embarrassing yourself. Let's do it source by source.

Technically, the Social Security trust funds have about $2.7 trillion in “special issues” of the U.S. Treasury, and the funds earn interest. Social Security can redeem these “special issues” to finance its operations, as it has done since 2010. But when it does, the government needs to borrow the money.
http://factcheck.org/2012/11/durbin-aga ... s-red-ink/

Social Security is a pay-as-you-go system, which means that payments collected today are immediately used to pay benefits. Until recently, more payments were collected than were needed for benefits. So Social Security loaned the money to the U.S. government, which used it for other things, which in effect masked the overall size of the federal budget deficit. In exchange, Social Security received interest-bearing Treasury securities, which now total more than $2.7 trillion.
As we have repeatedly explained, the bonds held by Social Security are backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government. The bonds are a real asset to Social Security, but — here’s where it gets complicated — they also represent an obligation by the rest of the government. Like any entity that issues debt, such as a corporation, the government will have to make good on its obligations, generally by taking the money out of revenue, reducing expenses or issuing new debt.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac ... _blog.html

Although current forecasts maintain the solvency of Social Security paying full benefits until 2036, the President is committed to making sure that Social Security is solvent and viable for the American people, now and in the future.
page 195
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default ... budget.pdf

Table s-4 does show that the Trust Fund will be at a deficit comparing receipts to outlays (this is entirely due to the payroll tax reduction the past two years), but that will be made up by the government repaying it's loans to the Trust Fund, as has been repeatedly pointed out to you. The Trust Fund holds trillions in dollars in Treasury backed instruments due to the repeated borrowing from the Trust Fund by Congress beginning back with Reagan. The reduction in the payroll taxes the past two years is funded by repayment of those instruments, not by the Treasury directly paying the beneficiaries.

In regard to the HuffPost article, if you look at their graph, it shows that SS spending is about $725 billion while SS receipts are about $819 billion, showing a surplus, not a deficit.

So just for you, SS does not add one dime to the deficit. Repayment of congressional borrowing from the Trust Fund does add to the deficit. GOP wants to make it more difficult for beneficiaries to collect what has been promised them after years of paying into the Fund, so that a surplus is maintained that they can raid to pay for tax cuts to the wealthiest two percent.

Table S-4 shows projections for Social Security from 2011 to 2022. Now that you admit the table talks about the deficit which you didn't before, you'll see there is a projected net negative contribution from SS to the deficit every year in that range. So where is the government making up this defict by "repaying loans"?

You are totally twisting the factcheck and Washington Post articles. They are trying to be fair by presenting both sides of the arguement. And you only quote from your side. But the fact is both those articles quote both sides of the arguement and then conclude you are wrong.

The Huffington Post article shows that Social Security is part of the deficit which is my main point. It was from the end of 2011 and the final numbers were not in yet. The projections for the tipping point for Social Security have been terrible, and have been moving up for some time. Obama's report came out a couple of months later and I assume those numbers for 2011 are closer to the actual numbers (factcheck says the numbers have been negative since 2010).

Every single source backs up my statement that SS does not contribute to the deficits. SS is solvent until 2033 and beyond. Congress is obligated to repay the funds that it "borrowed" from the SS surplus. Those "loans" were backed by Treasury issued instruments which have now come due. Every single source that you cite admit that it is the repayments to SS Trust Fund that are contributing to the deficit, not SS itself. You can keep twisting and spinning, but the fact is that SOCIAL SECURITY DOES NOT CONTRIBUTE ONE DIME TO THE DEFICIT. it is the repayment of the "loans" that are cited in the deficit spending, not SS spending itself.

Show me any credible source that documents that the Treasury department is directly paying SS beneficiaries.

You are just playing word games now talking about the Treasury Dept. My links are all clear that Social Security does contribute to the federal deficit and all you can do is pick and choose your quotes and then ignore the conclusions from my links. Pretty sad.

Once again, the report from President Obama's administration at whitehouse.gov projects Social Security will continue to contribute to the deficit in a negative way through 2022. How do you explain that now? Where is your "repaying of the loans"? Or will that come after 2022? That would make me feel much better. lol

As I've posted before, this Democrat talking point is pretty silly anyway. While SS does contribute a fair amount, the big dog regarding the deficit is Medicare, and this is just a Democrat distraction from that fact so they can ignore Medicare using this wierd SS arguement. Are you ready to discuss your Medicare solution?

OK, I'm off tonight... see ya later...

Either Dog is just trolling or she honestly is that deluded that robbing Peter to play Paul is more like moving money from the left pocket of your pants to the right pocket. One reason why the SS tax decrease holiday was so wrongheaded.

Nope, I am pointing out the truth, that Social Security DOES NOT ADD TO THE DEFICIT. It is the repayment of the "loans" that Congress has taken from the Social Security Fund over the past few decades that is cited in the deficit plans. This is the same issue as repaying US Treasury Bonds by individuals, mutual funds and foreign and domestic creditors.

I am also pointing out the shameful actions by the GOP in trying to make it more difficult for those individuals who have paid into the Fund for years to collect what is rightfully theirs, in order to create a greater surplus that they can raid to pay for tax cuts to the wealthiest two percent.