CinnamonGirl wrote: Okay, I know I am getting in the middle of this debate and opening more worms but here is something I never understood about those that are so "okay" with abortion. (***** disclaimer**** Just because I feel this way does not mean I think that outlawing abortion will work. It is too hard to do. )
The abortion debate seems mixed up to me. Those that believe in abortion tend to not believe in intelligent design and disdain god and religion. They generally believe that when we die it is just "over" and there is no after life. Those that tend to believe abortion is killing a person, tend to believe in a god and afterlife. So, I don't understand why those that believe it is just "over" and there is nothing after death would think that killing a fetus means nothing and you can just go on and have another one some other time. I would feel awful knowing I was responsible for just ending a life and that this person did not have a chance to be a person. If you think about it in those terms, you would think the abortion debate would be reversed.
So here you are equating intelligent design with god and religion, yet you think it should be taught in science class? Interesting. Anyway, to stick to topic, this is a simplistic black/white view of who actually gets abortions - who "believes" in them being available or not has little bearing on the actual matter of who gets them. I, for example, am agnostic, and can't say one way or another whether there is an afterlife or not, but I do not agree with abortion as a method of birth control (albeit, had I been faced with that situation when younger, I likely would've chosen differently). I am, however, in favor of it being legal and widely available to those who choose otherwise as I cannot judge their circumstances based on my own. 42% of women getting abortions are poor - economic factors are a huge deciding factor, and most here agree that welfare isn't optimal, and definitely not for paying more to women just because they have more kids.
http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/c ... stics.html
What proportion of U.S. women obtaining abortions are religious?
Answer
More than seven in 10 U.S. women obtaining an abortion report a religious affiliation (37% protestant, 28% Catholic and 7% other), and 25% attend religious services at least once a month.[38] The abortion rate for protestant women is 15 per 1,000 women, while Catholic women have a slightly higher rate, 22 per 1,000.[32]
Reference #38 does not go to a source that discusses religious affiliation, so I think that reference is an error. An older (2008)
Guttmacher survey
listed 37.3% Protestant, 28.1% Roman Catholic, 7.1% Other, and 27.5% None.
Reference #32 is to a separate journal article though, and has slightly different, but still similar, numbers. It is a free-access so you can read the entire article.
Reference #32:
Changes in Abortion Rates Between 2000 and 2008 and Lifetime Incidence of Abortion
Obstetrics and Gynecology
Jones, Rachel K. PhD; Kavanaugh, Megan L. DrPH
Obstetrics & Gynecology:
June 2011 - Volume 117 - Issue 6 - pp 1358-1366
doi: 10.1097/AOG.0b013e31821c405e
*see Table 2
Protestant 47.8%
Roman Catholic 24.8%
Other 10.7%
None 16.7%
Now, the matter of how often these women who identify with a religion actually attend service regularly, and would be considered deeply spiritual is less than the general population so it could very well be that even though they identify with a religion, they are not very religious, per se, and haven't matured to the point that they are considering the ramifications of their decisions. Regardless, those who get abortions do identify with a religion more so than they don't.
So, no, it's not mostly atheists and agnostics getting them because we don't believe in an afterlife and don't worry about "punishment" of killing another life. Not only that, but the greater majority of women getting an abortion have already had at least one child - so again, why would they go ahead this time and get one if they've already demonstrated that they were willing to have one before? The reasons that women get abortions are complex and not easily assigned to one simple reason or another. Married women get them, women who have kids both before and after get them, women of all ethnic backgrounds, and women of all socioeconomic status levels get them. It doesn't just boil down to who believes it's morally right or wrong, because obviously a whole lot less would be happening across the religious beliefs if that were the case.
According to the Guttmacher Institute 2008 study I cited above,
"One common reason women give for terminating unintended pregnancies is that having a baby would prevent them from achieving goals such as pursuing an education." If reducing the number of unintended pregnancies, and therefore abortions, is a goal, then we should focus on a.) providing better access to contraception (physically and financially) and effective and realistic education on intercourse or b.) provide better support for women while pregnant, both financially and socially (reduce the stigma of getting pregnant and giving birth out of wedlock) so that they are more likely to choose adoption than abortion. The incidence of abortions among those who are poor has dramatically risen over the last decade, so financial burden plays a strong causal role. I'm not advocating for increasing welfare, but I think it needs to be a factor considered if you want to truly talk about effectively reducing abortion rates - focusing on moral reasons is not effective, but financial reasons would be - get them free birth control and it lessens society's burden as well.
