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Poll: What's a dealbreaker for you to withdraw support of a politician
- ScienceChic
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31 Jul 2018 18:03 #1
by ScienceChic
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
I'm curious as to what your line in the sand is that you would decide to stop supporting a politician for whom you have voted? You can choose any or all of the options or "Other" and comment as to what that option would be. As you are making your choices, please try to think of both a politician whom you have supported enthusiastically and one whom you have been firmly/vehemently against and weigh each option carefully.
I look forward to the results and discussion!
I look forward to the results and discussion!
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
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- Rick
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02 Aug 2018 14:20 #2
by Rick
It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy
George Orwell
Replied by Rick on topic Poll: What's a dealbreaker for you to withdraw support of a politician
Sorry SC, but I have a longer list of dealbreakers from the last president. Some are the same as your list which was obviously directed at Trump. If I had my choice of 4-8 years of more liberal policy or 4-8 years of Trump and his bad speaking skills but good policies... I'll take the big mouth any day. Now if he actually committed a serious crime that he was convicted of (and not some made up partisan bullshit), yeah, he'd lose my support.
It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy
George Orwell
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- ScienceChic
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02 Aug 2018 15:51 #3
by ScienceChic
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
Replied by ScienceChic on topic Poll: What's a dealbreaker for you to withdraw support of a politician
Then why not choose the options in the poll that you agree with and select Other and add those in the comments?
No, I did NOT create this poll with one president in mind and I deliberately framed it telling respondents to keep both a president they supported and one they didn't in mind when making their choices so as to lessen their chance at committing hypocrisy by applying double-standards. Every one of those options has a basis in moral, ethical, and basic decent, professional conduct and just over half are crimes if committed, and if you think they are partisan than [you] (collectively speaking, not singling you out Rick), are part of the problem. It should not matter if it's a Democrat or a Republican who commits murder, they should be renounced period.
Some options, such as the "making racist, sexist, or derogatory comments" is a subjective, gray as opposed to black and white, area and would require discussion - what was the nature of the comment, to what situation was it applied, did it break a law or was it a joke made in poor taste? How often was it done, i.e. is it a consistent pattern or a one-off? Did it contribute to demoralizing or increased violence against that group? Did it lead to policies or laws that unfairly target that group? What repercussions are appropriate for that kind of behavior, as nothing in the Constitution covers this in specifics but rather generalities that would need court cases to define?
The poll is anonymous, not even I can see who made which selections, so it's not like you'll be held accountable to what you chose. But I would like for everyone to think long and hard about every item on that list because when those in power, whom we have voted there to represent us, are not held accountable for their actions then our society's basic democratic foundations will crumble. We cannot complain that no one has respect for others and that our society has decayed into lawlessness when we refuse to hold anyone responsible for their actions.
“Nothing can destroy a government more quickly than its failure to observe its own laws, or worse, its disregard of the charter of its own existence” Mapp vs. Ohio
-U.S. Supreme Court Justice Tom C. Clark
"Nobody has a more sacred obligation to obey the law than those who make the law." ~Sophocles
"Because power corrupts, society's demands for moral authority and character increase as the importance of the position increases." ~John Adams
No, I did NOT create this poll with one president in mind and I deliberately framed it telling respondents to keep both a president they supported and one they didn't in mind when making their choices so as to lessen their chance at committing hypocrisy by applying double-standards. Every one of those options has a basis in moral, ethical, and basic decent, professional conduct and just over half are crimes if committed, and if you think they are partisan than [you] (collectively speaking, not singling you out Rick), are part of the problem. It should not matter if it's a Democrat or a Republican who commits murder, they should be renounced period.
Some options, such as the "making racist, sexist, or derogatory comments" is a subjective, gray as opposed to black and white, area and would require discussion - what was the nature of the comment, to what situation was it applied, did it break a law or was it a joke made in poor taste? How often was it done, i.e. is it a consistent pattern or a one-off? Did it contribute to demoralizing or increased violence against that group? Did it lead to policies or laws that unfairly target that group? What repercussions are appropriate for that kind of behavior, as nothing in the Constitution covers this in specifics but rather generalities that would need court cases to define?
The poll is anonymous, not even I can see who made which selections, so it's not like you'll be held accountable to what you chose. But I would like for everyone to think long and hard about every item on that list because when those in power, whom we have voted there to represent us, are not held accountable for their actions then our society's basic democratic foundations will crumble. We cannot complain that no one has respect for others and that our society has decayed into lawlessness when we refuse to hold anyone responsible for their actions.
“Nothing can destroy a government more quickly than its failure to observe its own laws, or worse, its disregard of the charter of its own existence” Mapp vs. Ohio
-U.S. Supreme Court Justice Tom C. Clark
"Nobody has a more sacred obligation to obey the law than those who make the law." ~Sophocles
"Because power corrupts, society's demands for moral authority and character increase as the importance of the position increases." ~John Adams
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
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02 Aug 2018 16:37 - 02 Aug 2018 16:39 #4
by ScienceChic
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
Replied by ScienceChic on topic Poll: What's a dealbreaker for you to withdraw support of a politician
Well crap. I thought I had set it up in the back end that multiple answers could be selected, but it's not working as it should. So never mind, ignore the damn thing.
For the record, every single one of those options above are deal-breakers for me, even the ones that aren't crimes if they are committed with malice of intent or for personal gain at the expense of others. I don't give a sh*t what party they are.
For the record, every single one of those options above are deal-breakers for me, even the ones that aren't crimes if they are committed with malice of intent or for personal gain at the expense of others. I don't give a sh*t what party they are.
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
Last edit: 02 Aug 2018 16:39 by ScienceChic.
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- ramage
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02 Aug 2018 17:01 #5
by ramage
Replied by ramage on topic Poll: What's a dealbreaker for you to withdraw support of a politician
Additional deal breakers:
1. Have an intern perform fellatio on you, a sitting president in the oval office.
2. Be convicted of perjury in front of a grand jury.
3. Put classified information on an unsecure laptop, one used by a convicted sexual predator.
4. Use an unsecure server for classified information.
Is there room for more deal breakers?
1. Have an intern perform fellatio on you, a sitting president in the oval office.
2. Be convicted of perjury in front of a grand jury.
3. Put classified information on an unsecure laptop, one used by a convicted sexual predator.
4. Use an unsecure server for classified information.
Is there room for more deal breakers?
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02 Aug 2018 17:29 #6
by ScienceChic
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
Replied by ScienceChic on topic Poll: What's a dealbreaker for you to withdraw support of a politician
Would you agree that your list fits under the following choices that I listed?
Sure, what else would you list?ramage wrote: Additional deal breakers:
Adultery 1. Have an intern perform fellatio on you, a sitting president in the oval office.
Lying 2. Be convicted of perjury in front of a grand jury.
Improperly sharing classified info 3. Put classified information on an unsecure laptop, one used by a convicted sexual predator.
Improperly sharing classified info 4. Use an unsecure server for classified information.
Is there room for more deal breakers?
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
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- FredHayek
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03 Aug 2018 08:07 #7
by FredHayek
Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.
Replied by FredHayek on topic Poll: What's a dealbreaker for you to withdraw support of a politician
II don't think you can just draw a line in the sand. You have to balance the good and the bad. Best economy in years, record low unemployment, record low unemployment for African-Americans and Hispanics. Record high liberal meltdowns, wailing, and gnashing of teeth. Cons: pro-tariff trade policies.
Thomas Sowell: There are no solutions, just trade-offs.
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- Rick
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03 Aug 2018 11:05 #8
by Rick
Now if Trump was well spoken and well scripted like Obama but still spoke the same message about what he thinks this country needs, I know for a fact that the entire left would be just as scared and outraged. Because Trump doesn't speak through a PC filter, he has successfully created an unhinged media that is obsessed with every word, every hour of every day. They don't mention what the economy is doing or that more people are finally deciding it's worth going back to work or that wages are finally starting to tick up (because common sense says they have to when jobs outnumber workers)... the media in my opinion is truly worthless when it comes to giving the people news that is relevant to their daily lives.
How many Trump supporters would be willing to have Trump replaced with a career politician that would never upset decades of foreign policy traditions, or trade policy, or economic policies that haven't worked? What other politician could have exposed the deep corruption we are starting to see because of this Mueller investigation which was largely started because of a BS dossier full of Russian lies? I know you probably disagree with almost everything I've just said, so lets discuss those specific things and not some goofy poll that accomplishes nothing... it's all subjective based on ones ideological leanings. I think I could make a good case that one Obama lie was more harmful to the average American than every one of Trump's inconsequential lies combined.
It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy
George Orwell
Replied by Rick on topic Poll: What's a dealbreaker for you to withdraw support of a politician
I just think this kind of poll is silly at best, sorry. I'd be much more interested in this thread if you listed the specific actions this president has taken or the words that he has said that you believe should make Trump voters give up on him. It didn't matter to Obama voters that he associated with a domestic terrorist and sat in a racist church for 20 years. It didn't matter that Obama lied to the entire country when it came to the ACA (or he is just incredibly stupid and bad at math)... there's so many things he did that baffle my mind when it comes to his supporters because my ideology is 180 off from his and liberalism/progressivism in general.ScienceChic wrote: Then why not choose the options in the poll that you agree with and select Other and add those in the comments?
Now if Trump was well spoken and well scripted like Obama but still spoke the same message about what he thinks this country needs, I know for a fact that the entire left would be just as scared and outraged. Because Trump doesn't speak through a PC filter, he has successfully created an unhinged media that is obsessed with every word, every hour of every day. They don't mention what the economy is doing or that more people are finally deciding it's worth going back to work or that wages are finally starting to tick up (because common sense says they have to when jobs outnumber workers)... the media in my opinion is truly worthless when it comes to giving the people news that is relevant to their daily lives.
How many Trump supporters would be willing to have Trump replaced with a career politician that would never upset decades of foreign policy traditions, or trade policy, or economic policies that haven't worked? What other politician could have exposed the deep corruption we are starting to see because of this Mueller investigation which was largely started because of a BS dossier full of Russian lies? I know you probably disagree with almost everything I've just said, so lets discuss those specific things and not some goofy poll that accomplishes nothing... it's all subjective based on ones ideological leanings. I think I could make a good case that one Obama lie was more harmful to the average American than every one of Trump's inconsequential lies combined.
It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy
George Orwell
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- Rick
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03 Aug 2018 11:19 - 03 Aug 2018 11:20 #9
by Rick
It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy
George Orwell
Replied by Rick on topic Poll: What's a dealbreaker for you to withdraw support of a politician
Sorry just double posted and don't know how to delete the post
It was always the women, and above all the young ones, who were the most bigoted adherents of the Party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies and nosers−out of unorthodoxy
George Orwell
Last edit: 03 Aug 2018 11:20 by Rick.
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- ramage
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03 Aug 2018 14:39 #10
by ramage
Replied by ramage on topic Poll: What's a dealbreaker for you to withdraw support of a politician
I am in agreement with Rick, one word choices are superficial at best. For example I would never call the fact that President Clinton had a 22 y.o. intern perform fellatio on him in the oval office, and inserted a cigar into her vagina an act of adultery.
Here is a throw out of right field, if you believe that Trump had sexual relations with other women then Melania is following the path of Hillary. (Only none of the accusers of President . Trump allege rape as is the case with Bill Clinton.)
The comparison breaks down in that Melania has remained silent while Hillary blamed a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy for the charges against her husband.
Here is a throw out of right field, if you believe that Trump had sexual relations with other women then Melania is following the path of Hillary. (Only none of the accusers of President . Trump allege rape as is the case with Bill Clinton.)
The comparison breaks down in that Melania has remained silent while Hillary blamed a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy for the charges against her husband.
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