Hawaii's governor takes on birthers

As I quoted from the link I gave:

In November 2008, The Advertiser reported that the first published mention of the future president appeared in a Sunday Advertiser birth announcement that ran on Aug. 13, 1961:

"Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama, 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy., son, Aug. 4."

The identical announce- ment ran the following day in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin.

Birthers wave off those birth announcements, saying that Obama family members 48 years ago could have phoned in false information to both newspapers.

Such vital statistics, however, were not sent to the newspapers by the general public but by the Health Department, which received the information directly from hospitals, Okubo said.

Birth announcements from the public ran elsewhere in both papers and usually included information such as the newborn's name, weight and time of birth.

The newspaper announcements came from the Health Department in Hawaii. How would they know about a birth in Kenya, and why would they report it? If there were a birth in Kenya that somehow appeared in a Hawaii newspaper, it wouldn't of appeared there, but in the public announcement section (still, highly unlikely). I think those announcements could be used in a court as evidenced based on where the info came from, plus showing the Certificate of Live Birth as well to back it up.

The actual Hawaii birth certificate at the time was more detailed. As the link said...

The modern-day birth certificates issued to anyone seeking their Hawai'i birth records have spaces for the names and races of the parents, as well as information such as the time of birth.

Nordyke's 1961 birth certificates required much more information, such as the ages, occupations and birthplaces of the babies' parents.

There was a box to determine whether the mother's address was "on a Farm or Plantation," and the signature — but not the name — of the "attendant" was required, as well as boxes to determine whether the attendant was an "M.D.," "D.O.," "midwife" or "other."

Birthers have failed to get state and federal courts in Hawai'i, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, California, Georgia and Mississippi to force Hawai'i officials to produce a copy of Obama's birth certificate, with many of the courts agreeing with Lingle's administration that birth records are confidential.

In October, the Hawai'i Supreme Court denied a writ of mandamus on behalf of Internet columnist Andy Martin. The court ruled that Martin did not have a "direct tangible interest" in seeking Obama's birth certificate.

In December, the U.S. Supreme Court — without comment — declined to hear arguments in another case alleging Obama did not meet the Constitution's citizenship requirements.

They showed a photo of actual birth certificates for twin girsl born a day after Obama, on Aug 5th. As you can see (small as it is), it's more detailed, but still doesn't list the name of the doctor (or "attendant"), just the signature. It does show the name of the hospital, though...



So again, I hope if such a document for Obama is released, it would stop the conspiracy theories. But I'm sure it won't.

Still waiting for Wikileaks to leak Obama's Harvard papers too. He did write a paper or two at Harvard, didn't he or were they supplied by the Department of Education?

residenttroll wrote: Still waiting for Wikileaks to leak Obama's Harvard papers too. He did write a paper or two at Harvard, didn't he or were they supplied by the Department of Education?

Why is it so important to you to see what he wrote in college? I'd hate to have anything I wrote in college published. I've changed a lot since, I used to think I knew it all. Now I know I don't.

Then again, I majored in a science. I just wrote papers to cover my humanities requirements.

pineinthegrass wrote: The newspaper announcements came from the Health Department in Hawaii. How would they know about a birth in Kenya, and why would they report it? If there were a birth in Kenya that somehow appeared in a Hawaii newspaper, it wouldn't of appeared there, but in the public announcement section (still, highly unlikely). I think those announcements could be used in a court as evidenced based on where the info came from, plus showing the Certificate of Live Birth as well to back it up.

And where does the information contained on the document come from pine? From the forms that are filled out by whomever fills them out, correct? Could be a hospital clerk from the admittance records at the hospital or it could be the parents themselves, or the grandparents, who filled out the original form and submitted it to the Health Department in Hawaii could it not? That is why, to me at least, the information about the hospital and the name of the doctor who delivered the little tyke, which is nowhere to be found on the document Obama has thus far presented, is important. By the by, did the folks out at the Honolulu Advertiser have either of the twins obtain a recent copy of their CLB from the state of Hawaii so that we could see whether or not their hospital information was included on the recent copy of the document obtained by the state? That information seems to be curiously absent from the in depth reporting that the paper did on the subject matter. Not very good investigative journalism IMNTBHO if one is seeking to find answers rather than seeking to sustain an already held opinion. But that is likely just me having unreasonably high expectations for an investigative journalist and for the paper which publishes the article. I'm certain that neither the reporter nor their editor thought that such a document would shed additional light on their findings, right?

Birthers have failed to get state and federal courts in Hawai'i, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, California, Georgia and Mississippi to force Hawai'i officials to produce a copy of Obama's birth certificate, with many of the courts agreeing with Lingle's administration that birth records are confidential.

In October, the Hawai'i Supreme Court denied a writ of mandamus on behalf of Internet columnist Andy Martin. The court ruled that Martin did not have a "direct tangible interest" in seeking Obama's birth certificate.

In December, the U.S. Supreme Court — without comment — declined to hear arguments in another case alleging Obama did not meet the Constitution's citizenship requirements.

Oh sure, there is no direct tangible interest in securing independent confirmation that the man sitting in the Oval Office actually meets the requirements outlined in the Constitution to do so, I can understand why that would be so, can't you? We should just trust the word of the man himself, like we did with Nixon and his tapes. Nothing to see here, move along. If you really need to know, we'll tell you. Gee pine, they could get a microfiche of the records for a couple of twins born the day after our current president, but not that of the president himself, mostly because the lawyers that were hired to make sure that such a microfiche record was kept in the vault. A couple of twins had no hesitancy in allowing their bona fides to be examined, so why the fuss from our president about doing the same? Why let an honorable and decorated doctor employed in the service of his nation hold any doubt when such doubt could be easily vanquished by having the fortitude that the twins have shown in allowing a copy of their original documents stored by the state of Hawaii to be released to the local press? I mean, I can understand why Obama would be upset when his bona fides are questioned by a lowly Lt. Colonel, but would you really allow a man to be confined and other than honorably discharged when it could easily be avoided by showing the same moxie that these two twins showed in allowing their documents to be seen by others and published in the newspapers?

So again, I hope if such a document for Obama is released, it would stop the conspiracy theories. But I'm sure it won't.

I'm pretty sure it won't either since it would be akin to Nixon releasing one of the tapes that he knew contained nothing that might be harmful to him. The way to stop the conspiracy theories would be to stop denying access to the entire list of documents that are being sought by those that have a question in their minds about his ability to qualify for the office he now holds. Will it stop them all? Of course not. After all, we have a fairly large group of folks running around saying that demolition explosives were responsible for the collapse of WTC 1,2 and 7 on 9/11/2001, but it would put the issue to rest for reasonable people such as myself who have a question in their minds about his actions as an adult. What one's parents do when one is a child is out of the control of the child. Even if Obama was born in another nation, the laws of this nation were, and remain, much more favorable regarding citizenship when the parent holding citizenship is the mother instead of the father. Even if born outside of this nation, it would likely be decided, based on existing precedents, that Obama was a natural born citizen. What one does as an adult for themselves, however, is something I believe they can and should be held accountable for. That is why I am much more interested in his actions as an adult than I am in what transpired in his life when he was an infant or a minor child.

Remember please that there were an awful lot of people who believed that nothing in the tapes would implicate Nixon in any wrongdoing that were proven wrong when the tapes were eventually relinquished. The reality of the situation is that we won't know for certain as long as the documents remain behind a multimillion dollar legal veil intended to prevent them from being examined. We might all have our beliefs on the matter, but none, outside of Obama and those he chooses to include, will know with any degree of certainty since belief and knowledge are not one and the same. Myself? I believe he was probably born on the island of Oahu, just as it says he was on the CLB that he has presented. I am less certain, however, that he didn't possess a foreign passport as an adult or proclaim himself a citizen of a foreign nation when he applied to one or more of the colleges he attended. I, personally, am much more interested in having those documents released than I am the records maintained by the state of Hawaii regarding where he was born. But that's just me.

pineinthegrass wrote:

residenttroll wrote: Still waiting for Wikileaks to leak Obama's Harvard papers too. He did write a paper or two at Harvard, didn't he or were they supplied by the Department of Education?

Why is it so important to you to see what he wrote in college? I'd hate to have anything I wrote in college published. I've changed a lot since, I used to think I knew it all. Now I know I don't.

Then again, I majored in a science. I just wrote papers to cover my humanities requirements.

...you may have changed ...but he didn't and neither did Hilary based upon her college writings.

good point. look at the earlier writings inciting revolution in '69 by karin asbley, bill ayers, bernardine dohrn and others to get a very good idea of what they advocate now.

so what has changed about Bill Ayers other than the means of obtaining the objectives? He is still radical left on the political spectrum. He doesn't think that blowing up government buildings was a mistake looking back on it in his later years. He's just donned a new costume and continued to seek a radical change from the self reliant system conceived by the founders to one where we are all government reliant. Same for the others, same for our President and our SecState. Hillary didn't give up on government health care when it resulted in a radical shift of power in the Congress when she was the First Lady of the nation at all did she. Neither did any of the other radical progressives who fail to understand that the one thing our founders didn't want this nation to become was another nation of the European mold. Well, perhaps some of them like the monarchist Hamilton did, but the true course of this nation was intended to be republican, not democratic, in nature. Self government began in the home, self reliance was the watchword of the day. They knew then what progressives today have failed to learn from the annals of history. You don't want to become reliant on government for to do so results in tyranny and the loss of individual liberty in every instance. Look at all the nanny state laws on the books as a result of relying on the general government in transportation and education. But it is all good, right? Those laws save you from yourself and the idiocy of being allowed to be self determinate in your behavior. Is wearing a seat belt a good idea? Of course it is, and one who values their health and the health of those they love will wear them and badger others to wear them as well. Why then do we need the general government to insert itself into the mix and tell us that the sovereign state in which we live will be punished unless it passes a primary seat belt law? The general government was instituted to protect our individual liberty from force and fraud, not to visit it upon us.

residenttroll wrote:

pineinthegrass wrote:

residenttroll wrote: Still waiting for Wikileaks to leak Obama's Harvard papers too. He did write a paper or two at Harvard, didn't he or were they supplied by the Department of Education?

Why is it so important to you to see what he wrote in college? I'd hate to have anything I wrote in college published. I've changed a lot since, I used to think I knew it all. Now I know I don't.

Then again, I majored in a science. I just wrote papers to cover my humanities requirements.

...you may have changed ...but he didn't and neither did Hilary based upon her college writings.

So I guess all you want is the self satisfaction of knowing they were very liberal back in college (gee, that would be a rare thing)? It wouldn't change anything, Obama would still be President.

I guess it would be interesting to see if a candidate plagerized a paper or something. That could effect an election, but again it wouldn't remove a person from office for something they did 30 years ago as a student.

Anyway, if you call for seeing the college papers for Obama and Hillary, then at least be consistant and call for seeing the papers written by all the candidates.

Just imagine how interesting it could be to read what George Bush or Sarah Palin (should she become a candidate) wrote back in college?

I wish we could find the military records of George W. Bush.

Scruffy wrote: I wish we could find the military records of George W. Bush.

Have we seen all his medical records? I suspect he was on more than just booze in his earlier years. Well, we never saw Bill Clinton's either...