Do you Think Teachers Unions should be disbanded?

Something the Dog Said wrote: Except the Wisconsin GOP and governor are now on the record that this legislation has ZERO impact on the state budget. In order to pass it without the Democrats, the legislation can not have a fiscal impact. So were they lying before, or are they lying now. If the bill has fiscal implications, then it will be struck down as unconstitutional under the Wisconsin constitution, and if it has no fiscal implications then the GOP lied to the public.

Further the Wisconsin GOP senate majority leader is on the record as saying the legislation was intended to make it difficult for President Obama to win in Wisconsin.

The fiscal part of the bill was changing the financial contributions of union members to their own pensions and health insurance policies. Whether or not collective bargaining for benefits for state employees or state benefits for public employees in the future will be allowed can't be put into a column of debits and credits that represent the financial affairs of the state government. It is policy, not spending. Now, prudent policy can result in prudent financial decisions, but even in the absence of the ability to collectively bargain for benefits or salary in excess of the CPI there is not anything in the law that specifies how much money must be, or can't be spent. The state legislature can still decide to grossly overcompensate public employee pensions if they desire to continue to do so, they can still continue to provide fiscally irresponsible defined benefit plans in lieu of defined contribution plans, all that has changed is the set of rules by which the process is conducted. Now anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that the end of collective bargaining will result in less spending, but there is nothing in the law which directly specifies how much, or how little, money is actually spent, which is fiscal, which does directly impact the budget and would require a quorum of elected officials to pass.

Printsmith wrote: MPS is the Milwaukee Public Schools. Kind of hard to say the compensation number is wrong when the Milwaukee Sentinel Journal confirmed that figure with the Milwaukee Public School spokesperson and came from the manager of the MPS budget, isn't it?

No.

http://dpi.state.wi.us/lbstat/newasr.html

Maybe you should actually check with the state of Wisconsin if you want to see the salaries instead of relying on garbage that factors in administrative positions.

BearMtnHIB wrote: They got er done. I think we should run that Governor for President.

That may be possible. There is now a movement to get him recalled and if not he will not be supported by ANY union (fire & police included) in the next election.

Photo-fish wrote:

BearMtnHIB wrote: They got er done. I think we should run that Governor for President.

That may be possible. There is now a movement to get him recalled and if not he will not be supported by ANY union (fire & police included) in the next election.

It's not like he was supported by them anyway. Besides those groups alone won't have enough votes to defeat Walker. They are just a very vocal minority when compared to the average taxpayer as a whole.

towermonkey wrote: Maybe you should actually check with the state of Wisconsin if you want to see the salaries instead of relying on garbage that factors in administrative positions.

We're not talking about the state average here TM, we're talking about the MPS average. The two are not interchangeable. The manager of the MPS budget confirmed that the average teacher, and last I knew administrators were not included in the ranks of teachers, would receive as total compensation $101,091 to include $59.5K in salary and $41.6K in benefits. We are not talking salaries, we are talking total compensation. per year, per teacher, on average in the Milwaukee Public Schools.

Really? So the new law that was just passed only applies to Madison? If you bother to actually check my source, you will find that the average teacher salary in Madison Public Schools is $52,022 and the average bennies are $23,536. I am confident with my research and not relying on some arbitrary number with no backing.

The other thing you are failing to acknowledge is that the link you provided is not talking about the same time frame that the budget manager is. The budget manager is talking about fiscal 2011-2012, which begins in July of this year. Your link references the past, the fiscal year that ended in June of 2010. There are two years, the one that started in July of 2010, and the one that will start in July of 2011, that your data doesn't include any numbers for.

I'm sorry TM, but I will take the current statements from the MPS budget manager for the fiscal year the begins in July of this year as accurate over a table whose numbers are 2 years old.

K, but you just lost a great deal of credibility with me.

And why is that TM?

Whether or not collective bargaining for benefits for state employees or state benefits for public employees in the future will be allowed can't be put into a column of debits and credits that represent the financial affairs of the state government.

Your right PS - this is just the first step. The future will determine how much money is saved.

Now the question is - will they have the cojones to get rid of the dead weight - or will this bureaucratic mess drag on and on without the proper action being taken.

Remember now- that's the AVERAGE salary- many of the teachers with more seniority make much more than that.

Here's what I would do.....

I would issue pink slips for every teacher with more than 16 years on the job. They are the "entrenched problem". These teachers have benefitted from being over-compensated for more than 10 years. I'd say- you had a good run but the scam is up.

I'd give them a nice little good-bye card wishing them luck in the private sector economy, and a swift kick in the ass on the way out the door.

Hire new ambitious teachers - bright eyed and bushy tailed - and ready to teach the crumb crunchers the basics again, just like the old days.

Start giving the good ones raises and kick the bad ones out the door- and watch the quality of education in WI improve by leaps and bounds.

And if they do that

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it'll catch on like wildfire and every state will do the same thing.