Lower North Fork Fire & Prescribed Fire Review
- jf1acai
-
- Mountain Legend
-
Less
More
19 Apr 2012 22:59 #331
by jf1acai
And you know this how? Exactly how were they negligent?
What part of the burn plan, or the way it was conducted, do you know was negligent, that the review missed?
We all know that the end result was not what was desired, nor was it what had been planned for for years.
Other than 20/20 hindsight, what do you know about this incident that indicates that anyone involved was negligent?
I am deeply saddened by the loss of life, property, and quality of life which has resulted from the Lower North Fork Fire.
I do not believe that it is at all appropriate to make unsubstantiated claims about negligence regarding anyone who was involved until all reviews are completed and the facts have been determined. If you know facts about this that have not been considered, please provide them to the appropriate authorities.
If, in fact, anyone was negligent, I want to see them held accountable.
Based upon the information I have seen so far, no negligence has been shown.
Again, if you know of evidence of negligence, please provide it to the authorities and make it public, so that it cannot be ignored.
As I have said before, we cannot reverse the loss of life, property, and quality of life that has resulted from this. We can, however, learn from it to be better able to handle future incidents.
The reviews released to date include only the prescribed burn and the source of the Lower North Fork Fire. I repeat my request for anyone who has additional factual information regarding either of these reviews to provide that information to the authorities, properly documented, and to make it public.
At the same time, I also ask that we not make it any harder on those involved by posting unsubstantiated accusations.
Experience enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again - Jeanne Pincha-Tulley
Comprehensive is Latin for there is lots of bad stuff in it - Trey Gowdy
Replied by jf1acai on topic Lower North Fork Fire & Prescribed Fire Review
The saddest part of this whole damn mess is that none of it had to happen. Due diligence by the CSFS which they had a duty to follow, could have avoided all of it. Yep, NEGLIGENT. They know it and the people impacted know it.
And you know this how? Exactly how were they negligent?
What part of the burn plan, or the way it was conducted, do you know was negligent, that the review missed?
We all know that the end result was not what was desired, nor was it what had been planned for for years.
Other than 20/20 hindsight, what do you know about this incident that indicates that anyone involved was negligent?
I am deeply saddened by the loss of life, property, and quality of life which has resulted from the Lower North Fork Fire.
I do not believe that it is at all appropriate to make unsubstantiated claims about negligence regarding anyone who was involved until all reviews are completed and the facts have been determined. If you know facts about this that have not been considered, please provide them to the appropriate authorities.
If, in fact, anyone was negligent, I want to see them held accountable.
Based upon the information I have seen so far, no negligence has been shown.
Again, if you know of evidence of negligence, please provide it to the authorities and make it public, so that it cannot be ignored.
As I have said before, we cannot reverse the loss of life, property, and quality of life that has resulted from this. We can, however, learn from it to be better able to handle future incidents.
The reviews released to date include only the prescribed burn and the source of the Lower North Fork Fire. I repeat my request for anyone who has additional factual information regarding either of these reviews to provide that information to the authorities, properly documented, and to make it public.
At the same time, I also ask that we not make it any harder on those involved by posting unsubstantiated accusations.
Experience enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again - Jeanne Pincha-Tulley
Comprehensive is Latin for there is lots of bad stuff in it - Trey Gowdy
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- RenegadeCJ
-
- Mountain Legend
-
Less
More
- Posts: 3724
- Thank you received: 130
20 Apr 2012 06:04 #332
by RenegadeCJ
Well said.
Too bad future generations aren't here to see all the great things we are spending their $$ on!!
Replied by RenegadeCJ on topic Lower North Fork Fire & Prescribed Fire Review
Well said.
Too bad future generations aren't here to see all the great things we are spending their $$ on!!
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Beeks
-
- Mountain Advisor
-
Less
More
- Posts: 220
- Thank you received: 0
20 Apr 2012 07:06 #333
by Beeks
+2
Replied by Beeks on topic Lower North Fork Fire & Prescribed Fire Review
+2
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- mtntrekker
-
Topic Author
- User is blocked
-
Less
More
- Posts: 1485
- Thank you received: 0
20 Apr 2012 07:12 #334
by mtntrekker
bumper sticker - honk if you will pay my mortgage
"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." attributed to Margaret Thatcher
"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." Thomas Jefferson
Replied by mtntrekker on topic Lower North Fork Fire & Prescribed Fire Review
Talk to the homeowners. Bill Bass in the prescribed fire review is an A$$ bought and paid for. He lightly dismisses CSFS personnel not be there on Sunday as no big deal. Lie, Lie, Lie. Had they been there they could have evaluated just like King said at Town Hall Meeting. The FU royally. But hey lets make this just a little inconvenience. After all only 3 people died. It could have been the whole damn mountain of deaths.
Yea, yea, yea, we will do better. BS.
Yea, yea, yea, we will do better. BS.
bumper sticker - honk if you will pay my mortgage
"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." attributed to Margaret Thatcher
"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." Thomas Jefferson
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- mtntrekker
-
Topic Author
- User is blocked
-
Less
More
- Posts: 1485
- Thank you received: 0
20 Apr 2012 07:18 #335
by mtntrekker
bumper sticker - honk if you will pay my mortgage
"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." attributed to Margaret Thatcher
"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." Thomas Jefferson
Replied by mtntrekker on topic Lower North Fork Fire & Prescribed Fire Review
Had the pleasure of talking with one of my aunt's neighbors on Richmond Hill. His way of thinking is that fire is a once in 100-150 year event. He can either mitigate for that event or create a decent fire break (no cuttings of limbs up to 10 feet) for wind that he has to deal with so much more frequently. There is the trade off. I was glad to hear it and understand his reasoning. Still doesn't make it safe for anyone around him. He did agree though to allow us to drop trees on his side of the fence (aunt's side is already done) to create a firebreak and he will remove the firewood to use. Pretty decent I think considering his way of thinking. Great just what I needed, another project. lol
bumper sticker - honk if you will pay my mortgage
"The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." attributed to Margaret Thatcher
"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." Thomas Jefferson
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- CC
-
- Mountain Legend
-
Less
More
- Posts: 8031
- Thank you received: 12
20 Apr 2012 07:24 #336
by CC
Replied by CC on topic Lower North Fork Fire & Prescribed Fire Review
What proof do you have that Bass was bought and paid for? geeeez louise....
What lies did he tell?
I resent you painting anyone who disagrees with your premise that we perceive this as a little inconvenience. Your broad brush of indictment runs deep mtntrekker. Many of us just want to see all the facts before we form opinions. That is a rational approach to take.
Our hearts are broken for our neighbors.
There but by the grace of God go I.
Why don't you put your proof on the table. No wiki links to law definitions please.
Ya know.....I have asked some direct questions of you guys and I have yet to really get many direct answers or sources.
What lies did he tell?
I resent you painting anyone who disagrees with your premise that we perceive this as a little inconvenience. Your broad brush of indictment runs deep mtntrekker. Many of us just want to see all the facts before we form opinions. That is a rational approach to take.
Our hearts are broken for our neighbors.
There but by the grace of God go I.
Why don't you put your proof on the table. No wiki links to law definitions please.
Ya know.....I have asked some direct questions of you guys and I have yet to really get many direct answers or sources.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- akilina
-
- User is blocked
-
Less
More
- Posts: 1210
- Thank you received: 0
20 Apr 2012 15:23 #337
by akilina
IN NOVEMBER 2014, WE HAVE A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO CLEAN OUT THE ENTIRE HOUSE AND ONE-THIRD OF THE SENATE! DONT BLOW IT!
“When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex. Only whit man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that.” Indian Chief Two Eagles
Replied by akilina on topic Lower North Fork Fire & Prescribed Fire Review
http://northforkashes.blogspot.com/
Sometimes government representatives just really need to keep their mouth shut. More negligence.
Finally, I was told last night by Mike King, the governor's representative, that the person in charge of the burn is dealing with a terminally ill family member and "his head really isn't in the game."
Sometimes government representatives just really need to keep their mouth shut. More negligence.
IN NOVEMBER 2014, WE HAVE A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO CLEAN OUT THE ENTIRE HOUSE AND ONE-THIRD OF THE SENATE! DONT BLOW IT!
“When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex. Only whit man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that.” Indian Chief Two Eagles
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- ScienceChic
-
- Mountain Champion
-
Less
More
- Posts: 15741
- Thank you received: 320
20 Apr 2012 16:00 #338
by ScienceChic
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
Replied by ScienceChic on topic Lower North Fork Fire & Prescribed Fire Review
I can't remember if these were posted here earlier, but they are wonderful first-hand accounts of dealing with the aftermath. I'm very glad that they've shared their experiences and thoughts with the world.
http://northforkashes.blogspot.com/
http://kristenmoeller.blogspot.com/2012 ... clean.html
Edit to add: akilina beat me to the punch on the 1st!
I've spoken with a few residents who live/lived on Khuester Rd as well, first at the Recognition Potluck Dinner at the Park, and now after this meeting, and just wanted to add my 2 cents, for what it's worth.
What I see is a huge disconnect between what the authorities are saying and what the residents want/need to hear. Yes, fire mitigation is very important, but it was done above and beyond by some of these residents and it didn't matter anyway - and they understand that it won't save them every time. Had this been a naturally-caused fire, much of this discussion wouldn't even be occurring. When the first press releases and reports seem to emphasize the natural events (high wind, heat, dryness, etc) that caused this fire to get out of control, rather than focusing on the human error that ultimately created it and allowed the natural causes the opportunity to make this so much worse, I wonder at those in charge and/or who dealt with it that they are so out of touch with their community. What I see is a community that is very self-motivated, trying to be responsible for the most part, has pulled together and done amazing things supporting one another and the responders during the event, and take care of what they should and help their neighbors; but, are moving further into disbelief and disgust that those in charge aren't holding themselves accountable and feel like they can't trust those who are here to help us. I think this course of divergence must be reversed or nothing will change - those in charge have a unique opportunity to truly engage the community, and the community has a unique opportunity to make their voices heard.
I keep hearing the message that we aren't learning any lessons, even though we deal with the same risks every year. What can be done to change this from talk to action? Ideas?
http://northforkashes.blogspot.com/
http://kristenmoeller.blogspot.com/2012 ... clean.html
Edit to add: akilina beat me to the punch on the 1st!
I've spoken with a few residents who live/lived on Khuester Rd as well, first at the Recognition Potluck Dinner at the Park, and now after this meeting, and just wanted to add my 2 cents, for what it's worth.
What I see is a huge disconnect between what the authorities are saying and what the residents want/need to hear. Yes, fire mitigation is very important, but it was done above and beyond by some of these residents and it didn't matter anyway - and they understand that it won't save them every time. Had this been a naturally-caused fire, much of this discussion wouldn't even be occurring. When the first press releases and reports seem to emphasize the natural events (high wind, heat, dryness, etc) that caused this fire to get out of control, rather than focusing on the human error that ultimately created it and allowed the natural causes the opportunity to make this so much worse, I wonder at those in charge and/or who dealt with it that they are so out of touch with their community. What I see is a community that is very self-motivated, trying to be responsible for the most part, has pulled together and done amazing things supporting one another and the responders during the event, and take care of what they should and help their neighbors; but, are moving further into disbelief and disgust that those in charge aren't holding themselves accountable and feel like they can't trust those who are here to help us. I think this course of divergence must be reversed or nothing will change - those in charge have a unique opportunity to truly engage the community, and the community has a unique opportunity to make their voices heard.
I keep hearing the message that we aren't learning any lessons, even though we deal with the same risks every year. What can be done to change this from talk to action? Ideas?
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- CC
-
- Mountain Legend
-
Less
More
- Posts: 8031
- Thank you received: 12
20 Apr 2012 17:51 #339
by CC
I am curious SC as to what you perceive as human error in this fire?
Replied by CC on topic Lower North Fork Fire & Prescribed Fire Review
When the first press releases and reports seem to emphasize the natural events (high wind, heat, dryness, etc) that caused this fire to get out of control, rather than focusing on the human error that ultimately created it and allowed the natural causes the opportunity to make this so much worse, I wonder at those in charge and/or who dealt with it that they are so out of touch with their community.
I am curious SC as to what you perceive as human error in this fire?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- homeagain
-
- Mountain Legend
-
Less
More
- Posts: 11396
- Thank you received: 169
20 Apr 2012 18:28 #340
by homeagain
legal action,I believe the total thus far, is 7 or 8 cases for intent to pursue legal action......American Family Insurance apparently ALSO
believes there is cause for further action.....just reporting the facts.....anyone care to comment?
Replied by homeagain on topic Lower North Fork Fire & Prescribed Fire Review
I realize money mongering is the impetus....BUT,apparently IREA believes there is grounds for "something" to file INTENT to pursuehomeagain wrote: Insurance comp and IREA among those who have filed,as of today. More to come I'm sure.......
legal action,I believe the total thus far, is 7 or 8 cases for intent to pursue legal action......American Family Insurance apparently ALSO
believes there is cause for further action.....just reporting the facts.....anyone care to comment?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Time to create page: 0.308 seconds
sponsors
