RenegadeCJ wrote: Wow...an SC rant!! :thumbsup:
Guess you aren't in the building industry SC....regulations on what can be installed in new construction is rampant. If we really want to limit usage...why not charge demand rates for everything. Who cares what kind of lightbulbs, toilets, dryers, etc. I want to buy. You punish people who want a certain product, but you don't care how they use it. Is it better to have lots of windows, with a few incandescent lights only utilized in certain rooms in the night....or to have mercury filled CFL's (with the instructions on how to clean up a broken bulb and dispose of the hazardous waste within reach) left on all day? Rand Paul is right. If you want to control the endgame...then control it. Just don't tell me how to get there.
And no, we shouldn't regulate CO2....and the republicans are trying to find a happy medium between regulation and strangulation of the economy.
Oh, and good thing you are a flatlander....due to the govt, many of us who live up here, by law, cannot water our gardens.
There....I got to rant too!!!
Demand rates need to be changed too. I've said it before, and I don't think people get how big this statement is: we have to change our whole way of life, how we drive, how we live, where we get our food and goods from, in order to mitigate AGW. No more fresh cut flowers from Japan, no more strawberries when they aren't in season, etc. Sports bars on every corner with 30 flat panel TVs each have got to go, or the carbon footprint used to create them made up for and them powered cleanly. The list goes on, do you start to see the magnitude to which I am referring? Not trying to be preachy here, but y'all have got to realize that it's coming, like it or not.
How is it punishing people for a certain type of product when there are hundreds of brands/types available to choose from?
Strangulation of the economy - a convenient talking point that is not grounded in reality. I'll address this more later - right now, I;ve gotta go pick my kids up fro school and take them to Taekwondo.
Omniscience, can't wait to see your data!
"Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another as if we were one single tribe.” -King T'Challa, Black Panther
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it. ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. ~Winston Churchill
we have to change our whole way of life, how we drive, how we live, where we get our food and goods from, in order to mitigate AGW.
Do we have to?????
First of all, I am too damn old to change everything about the way I live. Second of all, I don't believe in Al Gore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I get sick and tired of being told by Liberals that they think they are smarter than I am. Sorry, but your book smarts don't mean you are smarter. You believe in Global Warming. Good for you!!! When you get the rest of the world to believe it and do something then , and only then will I even try to believe it!!
Anybody remember kepone? A chemical company dumped that into ponds for years that caused various cancers in a town. Took government regulations to stop that. And yet, companies still dump illegally and people still get chemical caused cancers.
Atomic energy? Maybe - when they can contain any and all meltdowns.
Incandescent bulbs vs other bulbs? Just because you "always" used incandescent means that that's the only bulb to use? Dumber than mud.
The frequently quoted mantra from the libertarian conservatives is that given a business atmosphere without regulation, companies will do the right thing. I have yet to see any indication of that over the years.
Sorry, Nmysys. I wish I had more time for that, but I've read enough of SC's posts to understand that she has 100% faith in science, no matter how often they are wrong. I would guess she's all for the Cap and Trade nonsense even though there would be no way to measure or quantify any difference it could possibly make in climate variation.
Over the years I've seen a disturbing trend in science, natural sciences in particular. Way too much faith in computer models, and little humility when it comes to admitting how little we know about our own planet and how ignorant we are of how the sun influences our planet. After spending well over a decade working with computer models related to natural sciences, I know how unreliable they can be. A perfect example are the hurricane predictions which I think are accurate about 50% of the time. Unknown variables = poor models.
Actually, SC, I'm sure I use far less energy around my house than you do. I haven't had an electricity bill over $50.00 in years and my last gas bill was about $40. I have a couple of CFL's that are about 15 years old now and run all my electronics on surge protectors that I turn off to eliminate phantom loads. I have no air conditioning and often use my woodstove to heat my home which I keep at 60 degrees all winter. I've always lived a conservative lifestyle, and was influenced by people like Muir, Pinchot, and Teddy R. I am all for conservation efforts, but am opposed to the growing trend of government control in all areas of our lives.
By the way, SC, don't you have children? Do you have some computer model data that can give me an idea of how much of a 'carbon footprint' today's children will be responsible for?
we have to change our whole way of life, how we drive, how we live, where we get our food and goods from, in order to mitigate AGW.
Cool! I'd love to hear how your family has changed their whole way of life. Do you tell your kids they can't have strawberries when they're out-of-season even though you can get them as KS and Safeway year around? Are you into growing and storingt your own food? I'd love to learn how to do that...just a little tough growing enough food at 8500' to keep my family fed.
archer wrote: The frequently quoted mantra from the libertarian conservatives is that given a business atmosphere without regulation, companies will do the right thing. I have yet to see any indication of that over the years.
I have not heard that but then I do not know what a libertarian conservative is.
I think a better libertarian mantra would be with limited regulation the co will be forced to do the right thing by the market place.
archer wrote: The frequently quoted mantra from the libertarian conservatives is that given a business atmosphere without regulation, companies will do the right thing. I have yet to see any indication of that over the years.
I have not heard that but then I do not know what a libertarian conservative is.
I think a better libertarian mantra would be with limited regulation the co will be forced to do the right thing by the market place.
I wish that were true, I would much rather the people and the marketplace direct the compliance of companies than the government.....but people seem to care more about buying cheap goods than they do about how those goods are made or what the environmental impact is of the manufacturing of those goods. It is not always in the best interest of the companies profits to do the right thing. BP and cutting costs on safety comes to mind.
My opinion is that libertarians lean farther right than they do left....I've never found any libertarians who believe in social programs ( they believe everyone should take care of themselves) nor are they for big government....so I am assuming that they would embrace the conservative viewpoint rather than the liberal. I hesitate to speak for libertarians, my knowledge only comes from interactions with several on other message boards......I have yet to see any here that I know of. What I quoted is what I hear from them over and over again....leave the companies alone and they will do the right thing.
Here's a question that never seems to get answered when I talk to gung ho greenies: What do you think will happen first, the US becoming energy independant with green technology, or the US economy collapsing under unsustainable debt? Green technology is wonderful if it could ever be affordable for everyone, but if we force it on ourselves before we can afford it, what good will it do when we can no longer afford to feed the ever expanding population of dependant citizens and illegals?
Just once I'd like to see where this big pile of money is going to come from to pay for the conversion. And if you tell me it will come from the technology itself and all the wonderful jobs it will create, I'm going to give you one of these.... rofllol
I'm all for research and development of green technology. I even think it should be part of the budget by taking some from the space program, the military, and foreign aid. BUT, not finding ways to keep energy affordable (ya dirty stinking energy) in the mean time, is a recipe for economic collapse imo.
Thank you for your explanation. Since SC now owns this forum we have to let her rant (LOL). As I have said before, it is great to have a scientist on here that doesn't believe everything.
