US becoming a food stamp nation.

archer wrote: I think the conservatives here are getting very close to telling is what they really think.... It sounds like they think the poor should all just do the US a favor and die.

Archer, as a conservative I HAVE to address this. I've been debating on this thread from the start. I am sick to death of the orthodoxy from both parties. As soon as someone strays from the party line they are marginalized and discounted by EVERYONE. Admit that this is not a partisan issue. It is a human issue. There are assholes in every group.

Listen, scamming nut bars are out there. Trust me, you can't stop them they are good at what they do. Martin and I both know this. The extremes are not the problem. Your regular person that needs the help but does not know how to get out is the real issue.

Nobody that matters wrote:

archer wrote: What the hell do you think will happen to them if you take away welfare and food stamps and medical care? They are suddenly going to get educated...get good jobs...and become middle class citizens?

Who's talking about taking it away? I've seen people say it needs to be changed to be more appropriate and less prone to abuse, but I haven't seen anyone say (in a non-trolling post) "Cancel Welfare and let 'em starve!".

What the hell do you think is going to happen to them if we give them enough to live on comfortably when they don't know any other way to survive? They're going to wake up one day and think "I'm tired of being a leech on the ass end of society, I think I'll work my ass off instead"?

No, they're going to get settled in and comfy, and raise new little leeches.

Welfare needs to contain incentives to get the hell off it as soon as possible. I'm not educated enough in the psychology of poverty to tell you what those incentives need to be, but I'm sure there's people that can figure that out.

Who said to give them enough to live comfortably? I didn't.....I don't see anyone else saying that.....maybe you could point out that post to me.

With all the bitching about welfare, and food stamps, if you aren't advocating eliminating the programs, what are you all advocating?

If we want to help people become independent then we have to make education a priority in the poor urban areas, there are some private programs that do great things with a few kids, giving them an education, keeping them in school, teaching job and life skills. But the private sector cannot do that for the millions of children that need it, and there is no money, nor really the will, to do it on a national, or even a state level. So the problem continues. Until we provide a means to get out of poverty, we will continue to pour money down the black hole of welfare, food stamps, and public assistance. It's an endless circle of poverty. Yes, some people do find a way to break the cycle, but many never do.

Cutting people off public assistance, or cutting back will not make the problem go away.....only investing in the poor, investing in their education, especially of the children, will have a chance of changing the lives of the children, even if we can't change the direction of their parents.

CinnamonGirl wrote: Listen, scamming nut bars are out there. Trust me, you can't stop them they are good at what they do. Martin and I both know this. The extremes are not the problem. Your regular person that needs the help but does not know how to get out is the real issue.

And it's a local issue. I can tell you first hand that there are many programs out there for a person down on their luck in Jeffco. There's advice counselors for applying and extending benefits, there's job hunting skills classes and counselors, there's people that will help you lay out budgets and use what little you have more wisely.

It's all offered when you go in to apply.

Unfortunately, while I was waiting in line I heard far to many people say "No" when it was offered.

That was a few years ago - I hope more people are taking advantage of those programs now, but I doubt it.

I think the classes and counselling should be required, not just offered.

I think you should have to pee in a cup for a drug test before each month's payment as well.

archer wrote: Who said to give them enough to live comfortably? I didn't.....I don't see anyone else saying that.....maybe you could point out that post to me.

With all the bitching about welfare, and food stamps, if you aren't advocating eliminating the programs, what are you all advocating?

Smarter programs with more requirements aimed at advancement and learning in order to obtain benefits.

archer wrote: If we want to help people become independent then we have to make education a priority in the poor urban areas, there are some private programs that do great things with a few kids, giving them an education, keeping them in school, teaching job and life skills. But the private sector cannot do that for the millions of children that need it, and there is no money, nor really the will, to do it on a national, or even a state level. So the problem continues. Until we provide a means to get out of poverty, we will continue to pour money down the black hole of welfare, food stamps, and public assistance. It's an endless circle of poverty. Yes, some people do find a way to break the cycle, but many never do.

Cutting people off public assistance, or cutting back will not make the problem go away.....only investing in the poor, investing in their education, especially of the children, will have a chance of changing the lives of the children, even if we can't change the direction of their parents.

You can't help someone that doesn't want it. You can only make obtaining assistance less convenient in order to make a job look better by comparison. The same programs I'm talking about to help those that do really want a way out will serve both purposes well.

archer wrote:

Nobody that matters wrote:

archer wrote: What the hell do you think will happen to them if you take away welfare and food stamps and medical care? They are suddenly going to get educated...get good jobs...and become middle class citizens?

Who's talking about taking it away? I've seen people say it needs to be changed to be more appropriate and less prone to abuse, but I haven't seen anyone say (in a non-trolling post) "Cancel Welfare and let 'em starve!".

What the hell do you think is going to happen to them if we give them enough to live on comfortably when they don't know any other way to survive? They're going to wake up one day and think "I'm tired of being a leech on the ass end of society, I think I'll work my ass off instead"?

No, they're going to get settled in and comfy, and raise new little leeches.

Welfare needs to contain incentives to get the hell off it as soon as possible. I'm not educated enough in the psychology of poverty to tell you what those incentives need to be, but I'm sure there's people that can figure that out.

Who said to give them enough to live comfortably? I didn't.....I don't see anyone else saying that.....maybe you could point out that post to me.

With all the bitching about welfare, and food stamps, if you aren't advocating eliminating the programs, what are you all advocating?

If we want to help people become independent then we have to make education a priority in the poor urban areas, there are some private programs that do great things with a few kids, giving them an education, keeping them in school, teaching job and life skills. But the private sector cannot do that for the millions of children that need it, and there is no money, nor really the will, to do it on a national, or even a state level. So the problem continues. Until we provide a means to get out of poverty, we will continue to pour money down the black hole of welfare, food stamps, and public assistance. It's an endless circle of poverty. Yes, some people do find a way to break the cycle, but many never do.

Cutting people off public assistance, or cutting back will not make the problem go away.....only investing in the poor, investing in their education, especially of the children, will have a chance of changing the lives of the children, even if we can't change the direction of their parents.

Nice platitude about education, but right now even the new college graduates
can't find jobs, much less high school kids.

Maybe more offerings in college and high school to teach kids to set up their own businesses?

Archer said If we want to help people become independent then we have to make education a priority in the poor urban areas,

Now that's a laugh. Like I said grew up in the south, these programs are in place there. People did not want to attend. Some did yes but majority rather stay ignorant and on the welfare system, they have been "educated",,, why work when you can get it for free.

Martin Ent Inc wrote: Archer said If we want to help people become independent then we have to make education a priority in the poor urban areas,

Now that's a laugh. Like I said grew up in the south, these programs are in place there. People did not want to attend. Some did yes but majority rather stay ignorant and on the welfare system, they have been "educated",,, why work when you can get it for free.

So what do you suggest we do?

You can see where the gov. has once again failed. Same as any other program they institute the gov employees are just as bad as they recipients.
So either make it a cut and dried bennies for X amount and no more, or privatize the system with better workers to enforce the regs.

Archer said If we want to help people become independent then we have to make education a priority in the poor urban areas,

Now that's a laugh. Like I said grew up in the south, these programs are in place there. People did not want to attend. Some did yes but majority rather stay ignorant and on the welfare system, they have been "educated",,, why work when you can get it for free.

The people who really want to change their lives will do it in a normal economy. Right now there are not enough jobs for those who really do want to work.

But that said- Archer was asking if anyone would just cut off everybody.

I would. I would cut every single penny out of every every government welfare program- every penny. I believe it is immoral for government to take money away from people who earn it and give it to people who dont earn it. I don't care what bad hand of cards a person was delt, life is not fair and no-one is entitled to someone elses earnings- period.

This will provide all the incentive the looters in this country need to provide for themselves. Those who can not provide at all for themselves can be assisted by private charity groups, there will be plenty of money for the truely needy when we return the billions of dollars wasted on lazy no-good looters - back to the people who earn the money.

Cut every dollar out of welfare- every penny out of every program- including food stamps. It is immoral.